Ep 121 - Not So Pretty Ingredients

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Ep 121 - ASCP Esty Talk - Not So Pretty_FINAL 

 

 

0:00:00.0 Speaker 1: Achieve real results for your clients with the help of the new truth 360 app brought to you by truth treatment systems. The truth 360 app makes client at home care recommendations easy and features a customizable storefront to make at home care recommendations and purchases simple. No big opening orders required. Plus get access to advanced skincare education developed by Benjamin Knight Fuchs, professional discounts on products and earned up to 30% commission on all products sold through your truth 360 app storefront. Visit truthtreatmentspro.com or download the truth 360 app from your phone app store. ASCP members Log onto ascpskincare.com now to access your limited time discount code. You are listening to ASCP Esty Talk where we share insider tips, industry resources, and education for estheticians at every stage of the journey. Let's talk 'cause ASCP knows, it's all about you. 

 

0:01:10.9 Ella Cressman: Hello and welcome to ASCP Esty talk. I'm Ella Cressman licensed esthetician, certified organic skincare formulator and content contributor for associated skincare professionals. 

 

0:01:21.6 Maggie: And I am Tracy Donley, executive director of associated skincare professionals. And I am here to talk about this really important issue today. Awesome. I'm so excited to talk about this one because it's so fun. 

 

0:01:34.5 EC: It's fun. It's interesting. It's like an emoller coaster. 

 

0:01:38.1 Maggie: And it's infuriating too. 

 

0:01:40.1 EC: Yeah, it's on a lot of levels. 

 

0:01:43.0 Maggie: A lot of level. 

 

0:01:43.9 EC: So I'm a documentary connoisseur. And you guys know I've talked about it before, and Maggie actually turned me onto one, it's on HBO max called Not So Pretty. Have you seen it?  

 

0:01:53.9 Maggie: No, but I'm going to. 

 

0:01:55.7 EC: It's really interesting. It's a four part series. 

 

0:01:58.4 Maggie: I'm more of a podcast girl. [laughter] 

 

0:02:00.5 EC: Okay. So I assumed that Broken from Netflix and these were gonna be very similar and like all these exposes, these pro clutching expose of sorts. Instead what happened was like I said, an emoller coaster of feelings, of anxiety and then anger. And I was surprised at my emotional response because I watched it twice, you know?  

 

0:02:24.4 Maggie: Wow. 

 

0:02:24.7 EC: Over achiever. [chuckle] So the first time... 

 

0:02:27.9 Maggie: Are you committing it to memory?  

 

0:02:29.2 EC: The first time that I watched it was way different than the second time I watched it. The first time I watched it... First of all, let me ask you a question. 

 

0:02:36.1 Maggie: Okay. 

 

0:02:36.9 EC: Do you like my hair? [laughter] 

 

0:02:38.3 Maggie: I do like your hair. I like the scarf in it. You've got flare. 

 

0:02:41.9 EC: I've got a scarf in my hair because I didn't wash it because now, I wash my hair with bar shampoo and conditioner, like in a bar. It takes forever to wash, to cleanse and condition my hair now. Because... 

 

0:02:54.9 Maggie: With a bar soap?  

 

0:02:56.2 EC: Basically it is, you have to like lather and it's not lever, you know, all my 2000 parts or Irish spring or something like this. It's like a specific kind. And I went nuts about all different kinds, but let's talk about why. 

 

0:03:06.0 Maggie: Oh my gosh. Okay. [chuckle] 

 

0:03:07.0 EC: Because the first time, I was freaked out, I also had my fiance get rid of all his plastic bottles of stuff. I was going through our cleaning supplies and like chucking stuff out of this is... We've gotta change. 

 

0:03:21.2 Maggie: We are gonna get sick. 

 

0:03:23.3 EC: Yeah. So have you ever had a similar experience like that where you've listened to a podcast or watched something and you felt like panicked?  

 

0:03:30.2 Maggie: Yep. Like any of those food documentaries out there, like literally one minute I'm eating only meat. The next minute, I'm like, I hate meat, those meat people. 

 

0:03:38.8 EC: Yeah. 

 

0:03:39.0 Maggie: They're horrible. And then the next thing I'm like, you are what you, yeah. And I purge my entire house of all the food. 

 

0:03:45.7 EC: That's how I felt about this. 

 

0:03:47.1 Maggie: Yeah. 

 

0:03:47.2 EC: I went on this purge and then I calmed down and I watched it again. So the first episode about makeup was interesting because they put it together really well. It's well done. It draws you in and you're thinking about it. It starts with this college age girl and she's complaining about stomach aches, stomach pains. And she goes to the ER, they have no idea what's going on. So they do exploratory surgery, which freaks me out anyways. And they find out this, I think she's 21 at the time, that she has mesothelioma. 

 

0:04:16.8 Maggie: What?  

 

0:04:17.2 EC: Yeah. And if you don't know what that is, I've seen the commercials on. 

 

0:04:22.1 Maggie: Me too. Like those lawyers saying, if you have mesothelioma, please call this number. We can get you a class action suit, blah, blah, blah. 

 

0:04:29.2 EC: And that's usually directed at people who are factory workers. 

 

0:04:32.0 Maggie: Yeah, for sure. 

 

0:04:32.7 EC: So here's a 21 year old girl who has this incurable cancer that you get by inhaling asbestos fibers. And she says in there, I didn't go off a bag of asbestos. Why is this happening to me? Like that's verbatim what she says. Then it goes to this other lady who's working in the law office on a very similar case. And she's talking about, wow, like she's understanding what's going on. And she sees this. So out of just curiosity, she had just recently bought her makeup, her daughter, some makeup from Clare's. So she had just bought her this makeup. And she said, my daughter had a habit of blowing on the palette and making a colorful cloud. 

 

0:05:11.3 Maggie: Oh my God, you are gonna freak me out. 'Cause remember, I have a seven year old daughter. And the stuff that she does with makeup is not really how you're supposed to use makeup. 

 

0:05:18.7 EC: So she sends it off to one of these expert witnesses in the law case, law suit. 

 

0:05:22.4 Maggie: Okay. 

 

0:05:22.7 EC: And sure enough, it comes back positive for asbestos. 

 

0:05:27.0 Maggie: You are... I'm throwing up in my mouth right now. 

 

0:05:29.2 EC: Yeah. 

 

0:05:29.5 Maggie: Okay. 

 

0:05:29.8 EC: It's freaky. I got chills. Just saying that out loud again. 

 

0:05:32.3 Maggie: 'Cause you know little Kennedy. 

 

0:05:33.8 EC: Yes. 

 

0:05:34.2 Maggie: I know. 

 

0:05:34.9 EC: Yeah. It's troubling. 

 

0:05:36.3 Maggie: It's real. 

 

0:05:37.0 EC: It's so sick. And I have a niece, same thing right? So, this doctor that they sent it off to, he was a... He was a research geologist and micrologist. So those are important things. 

 

0:05:50.8 Maggie: Okay. 

 

0:05:51.6 EC: And he had found this asbestos in the sparkly Clare's box you sent me, that's what he said to her. I found this in the sparkly Clare's box that you sent me. This is the freaky part. 

 

0:06:00.9 Maggie: Why would they put asbestos in eyeshadow? What does it mean, why?  

 

0:06:05.3 EC: This is freaky. 

 

0:06:06.1 Maggie: Okay. 

 

0:06:06.3 EC: It's not like malicious, like today we're gonna give everyone mesothelioma. It's a little bit of this and a little bit of that. Let's throw on some strict nine for fun. It's not that. But what happens is talc and asbestos grow side by side. 

 

0:06:19.9 Maggie: Oh they grow side by side. I knew there had some kind of science. 

 

0:06:22.6 EC: So when they're mined and milled and such, they are not able to separate them and they have them where you can see it in these certain microns. 'Cause he's a micrologist remember. A geologist and a micrologist. 

 

0:06:37.1 Maggie: Okay. 

 

0:06:39.1 EC: So when you have a product that has Talc in it, it's often contaminated with at minimum low levels of asbestos. 

 

0:06:48.0 Maggie: Is this why they're always saying don't use products with Talc in it? I thought because Talc was, it was a difficult thing to put on your face. Like it was bad for your skin or what have you. But is it because of the fact that... 

 

0:07:02.8 EC: Because of this. 

 

0:07:03.9 Maggie: Asbestos?  

 

0:07:04.4 EC: Yes. 

 

0:07:05.0 Maggie: I mean, asbestos is a bad mojo. 

 

0:07:08.3 EC: Bad and it's everywhere. And they knew about it. The microscope this geologist and micrologist used was a million times magnifying. That's how he could see it. But the industry used 500 times magnification. 

 

0:07:21.8 Maggie: Oh my goodness. 

 

0:07:22.9 EC: So freaky, right? And at the end of the episode, they have these dos and don'ts, but at this point, how you're feeling right now, if you guys could see Tracy, you're visibly upset, your posture's changed, you're flushing in the face. 

 

0:07:36.2 Maggie: I know. 

 

0:07:36.9 EC: You're upset. 

 

0:07:38.4 Maggie: I feel like I'm gonna kick some booty, yeah. 

 

0:07:39.5 EC: So episode two is on nails, and it's basically the long story short, it's the overexposure of chemicals. And the chemicals emitted during curing processes that are not on MSDS sheets that are on MSDS sheets and that aren't. So in the nail salon, this was coming up from a lot of nail workers. I don't know, nail technicians?  

 

0:08:00.4 Maggie: Nail techs. Yeah. 

 

0:08:00.7 EC: Nail technicians who work, falling ill. Breast cancers, lung cancer. 

 

0:08:04.2 Maggie: Oh, I mean... 

 

0:08:04.9 EC: Lymph cancers, like all these things were happening. And I know that they're pretty toxic when everybody knows they're toxic and that's why they were of our industry, the beauty industry they've been wearing masks for a long time, because there's filings that are in the air, there's sticky stuff. 

 

0:08:24.5 Maggie: Yeah, tons of particulates. Yep. 

 

0:08:27.4 EC: Then episode three is about skin and this is where I started going, hmm. It talks about hormone disrupting ingredients and packaging, so Phthalates and BPAs. So this to me was not new news. The other was emotional and invoked... 

 

0:08:43.4 Maggie: Well, you live the skin industry. 

 

0:08:45.2 EC: Yeah. So I had to know, yeah. 

 

0:08:45.8 Maggie: You live it, yeah. Yeah. 

 

0:08:47.1 EC: So they start out by talking about these EDCs or these endocrine disrupting chemicals. And we're talking about how babies are born pre-polluted and how this chemical part of this industry is $140 billion dollars, annually. And really kind of winding you up for going, We don't trust them. 

 

0:09:07.9 Maggie: What are they talking about? What kind of brands are they talking about? Not professional brands?  

 

0:09:12.4 EC: All of the brands. Oh yes. 

 

0:09:13.4 Maggie: Professional brands?  

 

0:09:14.4 EC: It's just setting the tone. 

 

0:09:17.2 Maggie: Okay. 

 

0:09:17.4 EC: For this, like... 

 

0:09:18.3 Maggie: They're lumping it all together?  

 

0:09:19.4 EC: Be scared. Yes. 

 

0:09:20.3 Maggie: Okay. Got it. 

 

0:09:21.2 EC: So then it has a doctor who has even more authority and they were trying to have... She and her husband were trying to have babies, but they couldn't and found out the husband had... 

 

0:09:30.2 Maggie: But maybe he's using Irish spring soap. 

 

0:09:32.5 EC: What they realized was that they had all these potential toxins, including fragrance in their cleaning supplies. So they... I mean, this is not new. There's a book called hormone intelligence. That talks about this hormone disruptions in your home that you're not aware of. Like even... 

 

0:09:50.1 Maggie: It could be in your curtains or in your couch or in your... 

 

0:09:52.6 EC: Fabric softener. 

 

0:09:53.4 Maggie: Yeah, oh yeah. 

 

0:09:53.6 EC: Your fabric softener, in your free spray and even the doctor... Like the healthy or the nontoxic cleaners are not always healthy or nontoxic. So, and that's because it's a fragrance. So these things I was listening to and understanding, and basically they removed all these things and the husband's swimmers started swimming. 

 

0:10:17.1 Maggie: The sperm count went up?  

 

0:10:18.3 EC: Yes. And they ended up getting pregnant and they qualified it to this. Like this was the problem. The one part of this that really freaked me out was the chemical leaching, leaching from the packaging into the product. So no matter how non toxic... 

 

0:10:34.0 Maggie: Oh, from like BPA bottles and things like that?  

 

0:10:37.0 EC: Yes. So no matter how non-toxic things are, if it's packaged in crappy plastic, then it's gonna become toxic. So BPA free and BPA became a naughty word years ago. 

 

0:10:52.1 Maggie: But there's so many other things, right? Than just BPA. 

 

0:10:54.8 EC: Well, guess what they replaced it with?  

 

0:10:56.0 Maggie: What?  

 

0:10:56.1 EC: BPAF?  

 

0:10:57.9 Maggie: Well, thank you. Just put another letter in there and we'll call it good. Nothing to see here. 

 

0:11:01.6 EC: So they called it a regrettable solution and it was basically like plain chemical whac-a-moles. [laughter] So they said in there, so. 

 

0:11:07.6 Maggie: How about glass? Did they say anything? Like if it's in a glass bottle, then you're winner, winner chicken dinner. 

 

0:11:12.3 EC: They said, avoid plastic containers, opt for glass or zero waste. So bar everything. 

 

0:11:17.7 Maggie: Oh, [laughter] forget that. I'm sorry. I get a visual of you washing your hair in the shower with a bar of soap and I'm like, "No, thank you for me." 

 

0:11:25.3 EC: It takes me a long time. So I'm like, you're really gonna get in there. 

 

0:11:28.4 Maggie: Oh God, no. 

 

0:11:29.6 EC: So here's the key for me. So if you guys wanna get a piece of paper and a pen and write this down, because this is where I started to like, kind of like turn my head a little as I mentioned, like, wait a minute. Because the thing is not all plastic is bad. 

 

0:11:45.4 Maggie: All plastic is bad. 

 

0:11:45.5 EC: So this is what you gotta look for. Avoid plastics that on the bottom... You know on the bottom of your plastics, and it has like a label that has little triangle with arrows and it has like a 1, 2, 3, 4, whatever, avoid plastics that are labeled and recycled three, six, and seven. 

 

0:12:01.7 Maggie: Oh. 

 

0:12:02.2 EC: Because those are more likely to leach. Opt for the numbers two, four and five. So two, four and five helps you stay alive. 

 

0:12:09.7 Maggie: Oh, I like that a lot. Two, four and five helps you stay alive. Yes. 

 

0:12:13.3 EC: That was the takeaway for me. For me, it started to feel like a big roll up when they could have just said that. [chuckle] 

 

0:12:18.9 Maggie: Well, I mean, and also, aren't you typically looking for it to be three, six, blah, blah, blah, because you're thinking, yay, they're really recycling the heck out of plastic bottles to make this one, because it's been recycled so many times. So that's actually opposite thinking for me. So I love that. 

 

0:12:33.7 EC: Yeah. And that whole recycling thing is another thing, a whole other podcast. 

 

0:12:37.0 Maggie: I know, it's a whole another story. 

 

0:12:39.3 EC: Yeah. 

 

0:12:40.3 Maggie: Hey guys, stop. Let's take a quick break. 

 

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0:13:20.9 Maggie: Let's get back to the conversation. 

 

0:13:23.5 EC: So here's the next one, it's Episode 4. This is the freaky one for me, let me tell you what happened. Episode 4 talks about toxic formaldehyde releasing products, basically, they start out, these beautiful women... 

 

0:13:36.8 Maggie: And this is hair?  

 

0:13:37.8 EC: Yeah, these curly-haired women, and they're talking about this specific curly hair shampoo and conditioner and how they were influencers, and it was all going so great, and then all of a sudden, the one's getting tinnitus and the other one's getting... Her hair is falling out, and then the other one's getting a skin rash and one of them is a stylist and she's noticing the same thing on her clients, it's happening but it's all of a sudden and it's the same shampoo and conditioner that's been there... And styling products for years. 

 

0:14:02.8 Maggie: Okay. 

 

0:14:03.3 EC: It was the products. 

 

0:14:04.9 Maggie: Yeah. 

 

0:14:05.3 EC: It was the products that was causing all of this. 

 

0:14:07.5 Maggie: Like all of a sudden, your clients are sick and coming in and not saying their lives is happy, and they're talking about their sicknesses?  

 

0:14:13.3 EC: And you. 

 

0:14:13.9 Maggie: Oh, and me, if I was a stylist. 

 

0:14:16.8 EC: And you as a stylist. And then these other people as influencers, so here they're influencing and they're doing these YouTube videos and their hair is falling out. So this company, the specific company, they reach out to them and they're like, "Hey, something is wrong." 

 

0:14:30.3 Maggie: Something is up. 

 

0:14:31.0 EC: And they're like, "No, it isn't." And then they hang up the phone. There's still no answer for why, but I got to thinking about the... I moved last Fall, and I got to thinking about my hair has been really straw like. 

 

0:14:43.6 Maggie: And you've had a little health... Some health problems too. 

 

0:14:45.3 EC: Yeah, so I'm freak... I'm ears open. 

 

0:14:47.4 Maggie: It must be like blowing up your brain. 

 

0:14:49.5 EC: Yeah, well, I'm definitely peaked. So where I was like... With Episode 3 and Episode 4, I was like, "Wait a minute." [chuckle] So... 

 

0:14:55.9 Maggie: Now I understand the bar soap. 

 

0:14:58.0 EC: So I did go to bar soaps though because I thought, if their formula hadn't changed, if that was their standpoint, and they stood firm and in the fact, "No, it's not, it's not doing it, you can't prove it." But there's this Facebook group... There's all these social media groups that say, "XX brand consequences of... " Or whatever it was. We're united in our side effects, I don't remember the name. 

 

0:15:22.0 Maggie: [chuckle] Okay. 

 

0:15:22.3 EC: And I can put it in the show notes. 

 

0:15:23.3 Maggie: I get the gist. 

 

0:15:24.3 EC: But watch the show. 

 

0:15:25.5 Maggie: Yeah, yeah, yeah. 

 

0:15:26.5 EC: So watch the show and find out. But basically it was, how could that happen and how could the brand not take accountability. So for them rather than saying, "We're gonna look into it." Which they did though, like, "We looked into it, our formula is the same, nothing's changed." But the thing is, especially now with supply chain issues, there's people cutting corners. 

 

0:15:44.6 Maggie: Oh, sure. 

 

0:15:44.9 EC: There's an opportunity to cut corners for demand. 

 

0:15:48.1 Maggie: And you having to bob and weave, your clients want products, they want it back on their shelf, they want it now, how... And there's a supply issue. You're gonna look for another source, right? Oh gosh, that is incredible. I'm thinking about how many brands are bobbing and weaving right now to be able to meet their demands. 

 

0:16:09.1 EC: Yes, so I knew that there wasn't a real problem probably with natural ingredient bar soap for your skin, for your hair, so that's where I went. I'll keep you posted. It's been a journey, it's been an adjustment, but... 

 

0:16:22.8 Maggie: I think the thing that I'm really interested in to hear from our listeners is like, you don't have to watch this Netflix documentary special, but I'm telling you, if you do, go in to our social media and just... We wanna hear... I wanna know what you think, like, I wanna hear what our listeners think after hearing this and then listening to and watching that program. Don't you wanna know, are they having the same reaction or are they more skeptical? I wanna know what they're thinking too. 

 

0:16:52.9 EC: I wanna challenge you to watch it twice. 

 

0:16:54.8 Maggie: Okay, I'm gonna watch it twice. 

 

0:16:55.9 EC: Because I wanna say something else here too. 

 

0:16:58.1 Maggie: Okay. 

 

0:16:58.6 EC: I wanna say that again, in every episode, they talk about this bills, the Safer Beauty Act and such, and there's four different PDA, ban the worse first, defend the health of women of color and salon workers, reveal fragrance and flavor ingredients and ensure supply chain transparency. Which I feel are all important, I need to say, I feel they are all important. 

 

0:17:21.0 Maggie: But read the details of the bill. 

 

0:17:23.0 EC: But read their filibusters or... 

 

0:17:24.8 Maggie: Yeah. 

 

0:17:25.5 EC: Klingons or whatever. But it also felt to me like this was a... May have been a... 

 

0:17:31.0 Maggie: A promo?  

 

0:17:32.0 EC: Pre-tour or a sponsored program, not to say that these aren't real concerns and that these should be addressed. It's the presentation of them, and it really opened my eyes in Episode 3 in the presentation of it. 

 

0:17:44.1 Maggie: Evangelized. 

 

0:17:45.0 EC: Because I know that part of things really well, so I got to see how they were hyping it up and really playing on the heart strings and the emotions. And I knew that I had just been on the emoller roller coaster in the previous two episodes. 

 

0:18:00.0 Maggie: Right. 

 

0:18:00.8 EC: And so I did think about that. So watch them twice. The other thing that it's important to do is not to be fear-mongering, right?  

 

0:18:09.3 Maggie: Right, I think that's the key. It's like you should always take everything in stride, figure out where the message is coming from, and then this doesn't mean like run around like, "The sky is falling, the sky is falling." But it's part of the education process, so I don't think that there's a negative side per se, as long as you keep it in perspective. 

 

0:18:30.5 EC: And speaking of the education process, be aware. 

 

0:18:33.0 Maggie: Yes. 

 

0:18:33.3 EC: Be aware that your clients or consumers are watching these things. 

 

0:18:36.8 Maggie: And they don't have all the information, and you may have a lot more information, I'm sure you do, especially as on the skin care side, right?  

 

0:18:45.1 EC: So being aware of that and understanding... Partnering with... This goes back into partnering with brands that you trust, right?  

 

0:18:51.3 Maggie: Yeah, totally. 

 

0:18:51.6 EC: So partnering with brands that you trust is so important that you can ask these questions. 

 

0:18:55.3 Maggie: They can be transparent with you. 

 

0:18:56.6 EC: About supply chain or about trust their ingredients and why is this in there. And also, when you're looking at ingredient deck, don't always jump to conclusions because there's some things in there that would be like an ethyl per se, you and I talked about this the other day, ethyl, but it's not like an Ethylparaben. So asking the questions and not jumping to the conclusion of, "This is bad, this is horrible." Or silicone. Silicone is not always bad. 

 

0:19:21.8 Maggie: Right. 

 

0:19:22.3 EC: So anyways... 

 

0:19:22.8 Maggie: Great point Belv, very good point. 

 

0:19:26.3 EC: Yeah. So calm down a minute before you go into action, don't do what I did, which is completely throw away all my... 

 

0:19:32.3 Maggie: Purge at your house. 

 

0:19:33.3 EC: Yeah, my fiance is like... 

 

0:19:36.0 Maggie: And your trash man is like, "Yes." 

 

0:19:38.1 EC: Super sticky. Fragrance-filled body wash. I'm like, "This is out, you're getting a bar soap and it's gonna be all natural." [chuckle] 

 

0:19:43.8 Maggie: You're like, "Oh." Two days later you're like, "Oh, that's what all natural is. No, thank you." [laughter] 

 

0:19:49.3 EC: No, he's fine. 

 

0:19:49.8 Maggie: I'm just kidding. 

 

[laughter] 

 

0:19:51.1 EC: So do you have any final thoughts on this?  

 

0:19:53.3 Maggie: Yeah. Actually thanks for being on the emotional roller coaster with me listeners, because I was on it, I was really hyped up. I do really feel like this is still a great topic and it has opened my eyes, I'm going to watch it not once, but I'm gonna watch it twice. I do wanna hear from other listeners in our Instagram, I do wanna check out the different bills that you're speaking of that they're putting in... Bringing to the forefront. And I do think that having a voice is really important. I think sometimes we get buried like, "That's just the way it is, and I just go through my life." And I go, "Boo boo doo boo doo." But once in a while, it's a good idea to have a check-in. And I would even say we've talked so much about, "Oh, it's time to look at your treatment menu, and once a year we do this, and once a year we do that." Maybe this is another thing that we put on our annual to do the list of, "Let's go back and make sure we're looking at all the labels of all the products that we're putting on our retail and see if anything's changed and ask questions." And even if it's once a year, then that's probably a lot more than we're doing regularly anyhow. 

 

0:21:00.9 EC: Yeah, 'cause we're learning every year. 

 

0:21:01.4 Maggie: Yeah. 

 

0:21:02.3 EC: Now, listeners, we really wanna hear from you. What are your thoughts on the not so-pretty side of our industry? What is your level of concern? Do you feel these fears are valid or is this documentary series more fear-mongering? Let us know by reaching out on our social media platforms, especially Instagram and Facebook, or by emailing get connected at ascpskincare.com. We wanna know all the details and we wanna know your thoughts. In the meantime, thank you for listening to ASCP Esty Talk. For more information on this episode or for ways to connect with Maggie or myself or to learn more about ASCP, check out the show notes and stay tuned for the next episode of ASCP Esty Talk. 

 

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0:21:43.8 S1: Thanks for joining us today. If you like what you hear and you want more, subscribe. If you wanna belong to the only all inclusive association for estheticians that includes professional liability insurance, education, industry insights and an opportunity to spotlight your sick skills, join at ascpskincare.com, only $2.59 per year for all this goodness. ASCP knows, it's all about you.Page Break