Ep 20 - Vulnerability: Is it the next step to your career success?

00:01 Tracy Donley: You are listening to ASCP Esty Talk, where we share insider tips, industry resources and education for estheticians at every stage of the journey. Let's talk 'cause ASCP knows it's all about you. Hi guys and welcome to ASCP Esty Talk. I am your host, Tracy Donley, Executive Director of Associated Skin Care Professionals, where as always, I hope to inspire you with insights and sound bites from entrepreneurs, influencers and experts inside and outside the professional skin care industry. And today, we are joined by Tazeem Jamal, owner of Skindulgence Spa, she is a licensed esthetician and, big huge and, and a spa biz coach. So please welcome to Tazeem to the podcast. Hi. 
 
00:54 Tazeem Jamal: Hi there Tracy, how are you?  
 
00:57 TD: Let's talk about your background. Tell people, tell our listeners, what has led you to esthetics? What drove you here?  
 
01:08 TJ: So my original story started out in the fashion industry actually, and I did fashion design and couture, and then moved into fashion styling for high-end clients, and I loved it, but I realized it wasn't going to be somewhere I could stay forever. So I remember having an incredibly candid conversation with my instructor who was himself an incredibly successful designer. And he said to me, "Tazeem, you've got such a great sense of color, have you thought about going into the flip side of the industry, which is like makeup and skin care, or maybe even hair care. And so it was on his instigation I had the great pleasure of exploring of doing make-up and then skin care. And I was always really good at biology. When I discovered skin care, oh my gosh, it was like falling in love, I just knew that that's where I was gonna be forever. And I've been in this business now almost 34, 35 years, and I'm still totally in love with this industry. And I'm so grateful to be here to support and inspire and help... When I had my full-time spa, I used to... One my slogans was "Changing the world one face at a time." 
 
02:21 TD: Oh, I love that. 
 
02:22 TJ: And so, yeah, and so I got into the industry very, very young, I was only 21 when I actually opened up my first spa location. 
 
02:32 TD: Wow, how did you feel supported enough to do that? That's amazing. 
 
02:39 TJ: I know, you know what, I come from an entrepreneurial background. My parents were business people, so were my grandparents. And so it was such a natural fit for me. It was never something I ever doubted. In fact, I remember speaking to my first boss, my only boss, and she said to me, "Where do you see yourself in three to five years?" And I said, "I will have my own business within two years." And I don't think she really believed me, 'cause I was 19. 
 
03:02 TD: Well, I mean who would believe a 19-year-old saying that. 
 
03:06 TJ: Right, exactly. And so, when I said that to her, she was like, "Really?" And I went, "Yeah." And sure enough, at the age of 21, literally a few months after my 21st birthday, I opened up my own location. And my parents were just so incredibly supportive. They actually co-signed a loan for me. And I paid that loan off within 18 months. I had... 
 
03:27 TD: That's amazing. 
 
03:30 TJ: I know, I was so grateful, so grateful that they believed in me. And still to this day, we have this incredible relationship. My mom is my best friend, and there isn't a day that goes without her and I talking at least once or twice, and she's truly my biggest cheerleader, my biggest confidant and the one who kicks my ass. 
 
[laughter] 
 
03:47 TJ: When I need an ass kicking too, right. 
 
03:49 TD: We all need those once in a while, that's for sure. 
 
03:51 TJ: Yeah, we do, we do. Totally do. So yeah, that's how I got in the industry. At the age of 21, I opened my own boutique business, Skindulgence Spa, and it was actually a beautiful boutique, I actually carried a lot of Canadian designers. I carried clothing and accessories, and back then we're talking in the early '90s, I was literally selling $125 earrings in my boutique. 
 
04:15 TD: Wow. 
 
04:15 TJ: I catered to high-end clientele, and started out so low, and then hired a couple of estheticians, and then my business just grew from there. Then I opened up and relocated and we moved into a very, very, very affluent neighborhood. And I built my business from the ground up again, and people were lined up outside the door, we opened up Mother's Day weekend. I was fully pregnant with my second daughter. It was crazy. I signed the lease, and in less than two weeks I found out I was pregnant with my second daughter. And so it was an amazing, amazing journey, and we were so busy. We were the first for so many things. We were the first boutique business that had side-by-side treatment rooms, I had a steam shower, we had... 
 
05:00 TD: What is side-by-side treatment rooms? What does that mean?  
 
05:04 TJ: Basically we, they were rooms that were like really heavy solid wood doors that were French doors that open up, so we could converge the rooms basically to go from individual two people separately, but if a couple came together... 
 
05:15 TD: Oh, I love that. 
 
05:16 TJ: They could be in their own rooms but the doors were open between the two treatment rooms. 
 
05:23 TD: So I'm hearing that you've really took your love for fashion and color and things like that, and opened up not just a spa but a boutique. So obviously, retail sales was a really big part of your success. Talk to me a little bit about what type of a sales person you are? Did you feel like you were a sales person?  
 
05:46 TJ: No, because I was always so passionate about everything I brought in. And that's one of the things I teach estheticians in my coaching practice is, position yourself in a place of being in service to your clients. Your clients need what you have. All you need to do is share with them what you have. When you are excited about something, people just have no choice but to listen. Because they're like, I still to this day have clients say to me, "Okay, Tazeem, what's new this month?" Because they know I'm excited. And when you're passionate, that brings people to you. And it's not about being a salesperson, because when you are authentic and you're real and you talk to the clients about the things that they need, you know what, that's a game changer in your business. 
 
06:31 TD: There must have been a point or two so far in your career where maybe things haven't always been so sunny. Can you share an example of something like that and then what you've learned from it?  
 
06:42 TJ: Yeah, for sure. So 2008, 2009, when we had the first... 
 
06:46 TD: Oh, I hated those years. 
 
06:47 TJ: Massive financial crash, that was devastating for me. Like Tracy, devastating, I felt like I went through about 18 months of mourning. I ended up having to walk away from my physical bricks and mortar business, I finally decided... And not because we weren't doing well, because we were still doing well, our business had dropped absolutely. Could we have survived? Possibly. But you know what, my landlord was not willing to work with me. I had spent probably... It sounds crazy, 'cause now it's even more crazy, but back then, we had created a business model and a physical space that was just the most unique space I think I've probably even, and I know it's my business, but it was a beautiful space. And it was literally, I probably spent almost a quarter of a million dollars building my business. 
 
07:39 TD: Wooh! Are you talking about built out or retail and products and marketing, like the whole thing?  
 
07:44 TJ: Everything. Every... Yeah, everything. You know like the physical build out, the space inside, all my linens, my... Like everything, construction. And 10 years later, I had to walk away from it all, and I could not believe it because my landlord was not willing to work with me. I already had a very, very high lease. I knew at five years my lease was gonna go up, but I knew I could do it because I've had a game plan and I knew I'd done my numbers and I wasn't off. But at that 10-year mark when he was not willing to work with me, I finally made the decision that it was time for me to get out, and it was the hard... I didn't realize how hard it was gonna be, and it was the most emotionally traumatic experience of my entire... 
 
08:28 TD: That's what I was gonna ask you, was it an emotional difficulty?  
 
08:31 TJ: Worldly life. Oh, it was horrible, horrible, horrible, horrible. So when people say, like, I am a super positive person, right? But those years were dark for me. And I never spoke out long about them until a pivoting point when I had a colleague of mine who invited me to participate in a anthology book. And it took a while, and I participated. So an anthology is where it's a paid opportunity to be part of a collective in a published book. And I had to reinvent myself, and it took a long time to write that story. I think I had 300... 
 
09:10 TD: Oh, so you had to tell that story, that specific story for the book?  
 
09:14 TJ: Well, that's the story I chose to share because I felt like it was part of my healing process, and we're not on camera right now, but I have to tell you, still to this day when I talk about it, it is an emotional place to be. 
 
09:29 TD: Oh, of course, yeah. 
 
09:32 TJ: And it was heart wrenching and heartbreaking and so scary, and I say this in vulnerability today because I know today the world is going through something similar, but probably even worse. 
 
09:46 TD: Hey guys, stop. Let's take a quick break. 
 
[music] 
 
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10:38 TD: Let's get back to the conversation. So do you think that vulnerability and that scariness, was that coming from a feeling of that you've let yourself down or that you are dissatisfied with how this is happening, or was it scary from a financial, like supporting your family standpoint? What were... Just because there are a lot of people feeling similar feelings right now, what were those emotions, what were those feelings stemming from? Were some of them tangible and based on truth and actual things, or was it more just in your head?  
 
11:17 TJ: So I have to say for me, it was primarily... It was actually my own identity to begin with, because for 20 years, I was Skindulgence and Skindulgence was me. I wasn't Tazeem, I was Skindulgence. When people thought Skindulgence, they thought about me. When they thought about me, they thought about Skindulgence. And so for me, it was a bit of an identity crisis. I had to re-invent me. And so that was probably the biggest piece. The second was, I felt like I was letting down my community and my clients, because I had to do things totally differently, and we were truly the premium spa. We were charging a lot of money for our services like 25 years ago, and people loved it, they couldn't get enough of it. We were so busy and so booked, it was amazing, I created an incredible brand for my business. But I had kinda lost me in that brand. And so for me, that was the biggest piece, it was like who the hell am I now? Now that I don't have that, who am I? A lot of my really good clients, they did follow me, and this is where I reinvented myself. 
 
12:35 TJ: I brought one of my staff along with me on the journey, she stayed with me for another three years, and then I went back to being solo, which is where I am now. And so today, I look back on that, even though there's emotion, I could not have chosen a better path. So my message to anybody who's listening to this, no matter when, if you're on a journey that you think you're bottomed out, and there is no hope, there's always hope on the other side because you gotta get on the other side of fear. Don't let fear knock you out off the knees. You might be on your knees right now, but don't let that be where you stay. I hope that people can walk away from listening to this feeling like there is so much possibility, because what I have achieved in the last five to 10 years, I've made more money as a solo esthetician than I ever did in my own business, even though we had a phenomenal business. 
 
13:28 TJ: We did incredible retail. All my staff made great money. But what I've done by myself... And this is where your own personal passion has to come in. If you don't love you enough and you don't love what you do enough, why would clients come to see you? So when you love what you do, people will come from all over. I've been featured in books and magazines, I've been on TV, because people heard about me. I had somebody who was referred to me from Palm Springs. I'm in Canada. And that came... Because that came because people loved my brand, they loved who I was. They knew who I was. They knew who was behind the brand. And because I really truly loved my clients. And yes, I didn't... I was never afraid to stand in what I charged and what I was worth. But boy, did I give my clients an experience that they've never had anywhere else from start to finish. 
 
14:28 TD: What's some advice of... Maybe they're practical tips, or maybe it's just some inspirations. How would you advise an esthetician who maybe has lost that loving feeling? Where should they look? What should they do?  
 
14:47 TJ: I think the first thing is you definitely need to look inside. Really, what can you do different? Find a passion in what you offer to your clients that you can do. And if that means you've got to try something new or experiment with the a new treatment or a new methodology of the same treatment, do something. Allow your passion to flow. But the first thing that we need to do is we need to leave our... Things that are going on in our world that have nothing to do with our clients, we need to leave it at the door. Do not bring it into the treatment room. Center yourself in your own space before you bring your client into the room. And remember, ladies and gentlemen, we have the privilege to touch people. It is powerful privilege that we can never take for granted. 
 
15:39 TD: It starts actually with self-care. Everything that... 
 
15:41 TJ: Absolutley. 
 
15:42 TD: That you've been saying is that it stems from self care. It's about how you feel about you and are you filled up. And so if you're not full up, if you're not getting what you need or feeling inspired by what you need, then you have to do that first. Does that sound fair?  
 
16:01 TJ: Absolutely. Yeah, for sure. And it comes... Self care comes in so many forms. As estheticians, what do we do for treatment protocols? Do we go for a massage? Do we go for... Do we do yoga? Do we read books? Do we... What is it that we do that fills up our cup? Do you like to color? Do you like to cook? Do you like to garden? Find something that you love to do, because we are... And you know I'm the first one to say I need to listen to my own advice because I've been so in love with what I do that I could literally... And through COVID, I've probably sat at my desk and in my office for probably 16-18 hours a day just working. 
 
16:43 TD: Wow. 
 
16:43 TJ: Because I love it. And this has fueled me. And I've done so much gratis work, I have done so many free workshops and webinars through COVID to help estheticians because it is my heart, because I've been so blessed and I've had so much success in my world. But don't be afraid to stand in what you offer, and find what it is that fills you up first, do what you can for your clients. And remember, when that door shuts and the client is on your bed, they are the only one that matter right now. Focus on them 110%. 
 
17:19 TD: So there's been a lot of talk lately just kind of about diversity, right?  
 
17:25 TJ: Yes. 
 
17:25 TD: How... Is that been affecting you? First, can you just share a little bit about your ethnic background, how you were brought up, and a little about... 
 
17:35 TJ: Yeah, for sure. So... 
 
17:36 TD: How that goes into the business that you're in. 
 
17:39 TJ: Yeah, definitely. And I think that anybody who is a person of color, as much as there is so much negativity in the world right now, I think that there's so much beauty in diversity. Because... 
 
17:53 TD: Oh, yeah, for sure. 
 
17:55 TJ: Even when... You think of our hands, we have five fingers. Are they all the same? Could you imagine if they were all the same? If we all had stumps or we had all thumbs, could you actually get anything done?  
 
18:08 TD: No. 
 
18:09 TJ: Could you pick up a plate? Could you do your makeup? Could you do a massage? No. And so to me, diversity is so much more powerful. To me, everybody, new, old, young, it doesn't matter, that diversity is what gives us strength. So as a young girl, I was born in Africa, in Tanzania, raised in the United Kingdom. So I was born... I'm a Londoner through and through. And yes, moved to Canada when I was 16, and I've lived here ever since. My parents are probably third generation born in Africa, and my parents are very worldly people. They've always traveled. That's where my love for travel comes. And so my parents traveled a ton and we moved around a lot when I was younger. And that's probably another reason I was very, very friendly because I had no choice. I always had to make new friends. 
 
[laughter] 
 
19:11 TJ: And so for me... 
 
19:11 TD: Well, that's why you're so good at it. You've had lots of practice. 
 
19:14 TJ: Right. Lots of practice. But you know what's funny, I never saw myself as different. It's so rare that I ever look at myself and think, "Oh, Tazeem, you've got brown skin. Everybody else in your world is white." I don't see people of color like that. So I never saw myself [19:34] ____. Having said that, as a young girl living in the UK, did I experience prejudice? Absolutely. And so how do we handle that? That really speaks volumes to who you are as a human. And so for me, I was raised to love everybody. It wasn't about who you are... No, it wasn't about the color of your skin, or your religion, or your faith, it was about who you are as a human. To me, that's more important than anything. And we un-cloak ourselves of the judgments we have of ourselves first, then we can be in a place where we don't judge others. I remember when I joined the Chamber of Commerce at the age of 21 when I opened my first business, I remember it was an all boys club. 
 
20:23 TD: Yeah, I was gonna say, were you the youngest person there? [chuckle] 
 
20:23 TJ: And I had so many gentlemen... Well, yeah. And I remember some of the gentlemen said to me, "You're mighty young to be here." And my response to all of them was, "It's not about age. It's about attitude." But I know in their head, they were thinking, "What is a young little Indian girl doing in our club?" That was exactly what they were thinking. 
 
20:50 TD: Yep. 
 
20:51 TJ: But you know what? I didn't give them a chance because I showed up. 
 
20:54 TD: You just stuck it out. 
 
20:56 TJ: I stuck it out and I showed up every week, and I showed up as a professional, and I showed up who I was. And then I earned their respect. 
 
21:07 TD: I love that. 
 
21:09 TJ: We have to earn respect, right? Just because you're great at what you do, you might be brand new to your business. You have to show up who you are. You have to prove to people first that you are worthy of doing business with. Maybe you're the cheapest or the most expensive, it has nothing to do with price. It has to do with who you are and how you show up in your integrity. Are you gonna follow through with what you're going to say you're gonna do? It's the small nuances that will make all the difference, because I will tell you, Tracy, that people are always watching you. They may not tell you they're watching you, but they're always watching you. I have gained so many opportunities from people reaching out to me saying, "I have been following you for years, and I am ready to work with you, Tazeem." 
 
22:02 TD: I love that, and I think that's the thing. Look at it as a positive. So many people are saying they're looking at me and judging me, and they're watching me. No, no, no. They're looking at you and watching you and that's a platform and an opportunity for you to shine. 
 
22:19 TJ: Yes, yes. 
 
22:20 TD: So make sure that's what they've taken away from it. 
 
22:22 TJ: I think the other thing estheticians always forget, and I always remind them, and I'm... Whoever's listening, I need you to really, really listen, don't forget to humble-brag, it's okay. 
 
22:35 TD: Oh yeah. 
 
22:35 TJ: To say like, "Hello, today we have to humblebrag." People say to me, "I don't know how to do that." Find a way to speak your truth and show up. If you've won an award, you were featured in a magazine, you were... You did something for charity, tell people that. Social media is so powerful. 
 
22:57 TD: Put it all over your site. Put it... Tell your clients. Tell everyone that walks in that day. Yeah, I agree. 
 
23:04 TJ: The other thing people need to do, and this is something I share in... As an overall arching concept in my coaching practice, is the purple carpet experience. I'm the girl with the purple hair, right? That's sort of my branding. And it's... I have... 
 
23:17 TD: Yes, she's all purple. 
 
23:18 TJ: I'm all purple. Like, people who see me at shows, I've had people literally come up to me and say, "Oh my God, you're Tazeem. I recognize you 'cause of your purple hair." And I'm not saying you've gotta have purple hair or pink hair but I'm just saying how is it that you're gonna show up, right? And so, when you do show up in that way, that's how people will get to know you, right? And so when you do something that makes you stand out. And the purple carpet experience is about really going beyond the red carpet. And there's nothing wrong with the red carpet, don't get me wrong, people roll out the red carpet for their clients and that's great, but the purple carpet experience is taking it to a whole other level. 
 
24:00 TJ: To me, the red carpet is superficial. It's flash in the pan, it's instant, it's glam, which is all great. But the purple carpet experience is about the belly to belly conversation. It is about the deeper authentic connection. It is about listening to what your client's needs are and maybe giving her a hot towel instead of a cold towel, covering her with a heavy blanket versus somebody who's having a hot flash and may need just a sheet. And that's really just all about, "What can you do to stand out?" It's not about how much money you make, it's not about how much you charge, it's not about how expensive you are. You could do something... And I'll give you a couple of examples. You could do something like... Before you and I came off camera, I showed you the card that I pulled today, right?  
 
24:49 TD: I know. 
 
24:50 TJ: So could you buy yourself a deck of cards that you could use to have your clients. I do that to my clients every time they come into the spa. I invite them to select a card, and that is their thought for the day, that is their emotion, their feeling for today that they can carry with them. 
 
25:08 TD: Explain what those cards are though, so everyone knows on this call. 
 
25:12 TJ: Yeah, so there's a variety of different cards that you can buy, like intuition cards, you could buy motivational cards, there's so many different cards. Basically, there's oracle cards, depending on what you do. If you were into real crystals and Reiki, there's lots of different oracle cards, but there is... Probably my favorite and if I can... Can I name it, my favorite [25:32] ____ of cards?  
 
25:33 TD: Yeah. Of course, we wanna hear... We wanna know what you like. Yeah, absolutely. 
 
25:38 TJ: I have two of them. Well, actually, I have three of them, but the ones I probably use the most are by a lady called Kris Carr, and they're called Crazy Sexy Love Notes. It's not what you might think, so don't get any crazy ideas. 
 
25:51 TD: Okay, okay. 
 
25:51 TJ: But it's Crazy Sexy Love Notes. And I should probably have an affiliate linked because probably everybody should go buy [25:57] ____ [laughter] 
 
25:57 TD: Well, yeah, no, we're gonna put it in the show notes for sure. Like, we'll definitely put it in the show notes so do what you need to do. 
 
26:03 TJ: Those are my favorite ones because it is about messages of your wisdom and fabulous inner self. 
 
26:11 TD: That sounds amazing. 
 
26:12 TJ: So when you have cards like that, I pick a card for myself before I start my day, and then I invite every one of my clients. I shuffle the card deck, and I invite my clients to pick a card, and that is their wisdom for the day that they take with them. Then what I do is, I take it one step further. I have them hold the card, I take a picture of them with the card, and I send that photograph to them after their appointment. It doesn't cost you anything, but think about the impact you've made on that client. 
 
26:41 TD: You know, I have to tell you, you have offered a plethora of inspiration from the big picture to the smallest details, which sometimes can matter the most, right? Thank you so much for this today. This has been amazing. I could sit and chat with you all day, you know that though. [chuckle] 
 
27:02 TJ: Yes, absolutely, we have a great connection, so it's great. 
 
27:06 TD: I know, it's been so good, and I think so many of the things you've shared today are just so genuine and authentic, you're so true to who you really are and who you put out there, and I thank you for that. But before we close, I do want to ask two questions. One is, what is a resource that you would recommend our members check out? So it could be anything, it could be professional, it could be personal, it could be a book, it could be anything, it could be a podcast. 
 
[chuckle] 
 
27:38 TJ: Well, podcasts are amazing. I think it's such a great way and it really is, I think part of the future, I do hope to have my own podcast before the end of this year. 
 
27:47 TD: Oh, that'll be amazing. 
 
27:48 TJ: Yes, I'm super excited about that. 
 
27:49 TD: You'll have to keep us posted here at ASCP. 
 
27:51 TJ: I will. Yeah, for sure, for sure. And I'm so excited to be a new influencer with you guys as well, I think that's gonna be an incredible journey, a partnership for us. But probably one of my favorite books, and I'm a real reader, I love to read and I think... 
 
28:05 TD: But the tangible book, not book on tape. 
 
28:08 TJ: It's a long... A tangible book, not a book on tape, but a real book, and you can get this on audio for sure, but honestly, take the time, buy this book, this is the one book that I recommend to everyone. In fact, I used to buy this book for my staff. When I had a team, everybody who joined me brand new, they would get a copy of this book. 
 
28:27 TD: Okay. 
 
28:28 TJ: And it is an old, old book but I tell you, I can read this book day in and day out, year after year, and I learn something new every single time I pick it up. It's called Think and Grow Rich by Napoleon Hill. It is absolutely by far one of my go-to resources for anything in my life, and a big part of my journey has been through the teachings of Think and Grow Rich. 
 
28:56 TD: And who writes that again? Say that one more time for us. 
 
29:00 TJ: Napoleon Hill, and it is an old book, it was published, I think in the early 1900s. It's basically about Dale Carnegie, you know the... 
 
29:08 TD: Oh yeah. 
 
29:08 TJ: The multi-millionaire?  
 
29:11 TD: Yes. 
 
29:11 TJ: So that's basically what the story... Well, it's not even a story, it is truly, it is real wisdom that we can still use today, but it was written so many years ago, like decades and decades ago. But I'm telling you, you read this book and it will change your world. And I can't imagine anybody picking up this book and not feeling that way, because you will learn so much about yourself that that will change the way you do your business. 
 
29:40 TD: Okay, so now another question. And this is just a fun question. What is your morning skin care regiment?  
 
29:50 TJ: I use GM Collin. In fact, this morning, it's so funny, I posted a picture of myself in my stories, you'll have to go find it. I basically got out of bed, went into the bathroom, brushed my teeth, put on my multi-mask 'cause I have two different masks I put on, one for hydration and one for just cleansing and brightening. And I laid down in my bed and I took a selfie with my mask on and I said, "Mask Monday." And now I'm gonna put on some motivational audio, and that's what often I'll do, is I will get up and do that once or twice a week, and then lie down on my bed again for just 10 or 15 minutes, and I use that time to feed my mind. 
 
30:29 TD: Oh, I love that. Mask Monday, everybody, let's all start... 
 
30:33 TJ: Mask Monday, yup. 
 
30:34 TD: Doing mask Monday and tell our clients to do mask Monday. 
 
30:36 TJ: Mask motivation Monday. 
 
30:37 TD: Mask motivation Monday, okay, let's hashtag it, I love that. 
 
30:40 TJ: Yeah, mask motivation Monday. So I mask, I exfoliate a couple of times a week, and then I definitely use like a cleanser, a hydrating mist, a serum, always use a serum, always, twice a day, two different ones, two different eye creams. I use a BB cream during the day over the top of my moisturizer, and I'm actually not a big make-up wearer, I love my lipstick, that's probably my favorite thing on the planet, the lipstick. 
 
[overlapping conversation] 
 
31:07 TD: Yes you do. I love all the different lipstick colors that you wear is great. 
 
31:11 TJ: And this crazy Coronavirus, thank God I'm on Zoom a lot because I can still wear lipstick. So those are... That's my routine, I'm obsessed with my skin care, I'm very diligent about it, and I use it every day, twice a day, and I walk the talk, I don't just tell my clients to do it, I do it too. 
 
31:27 TD: I love it. 
 
31:28 TJ: And so, yeah, for sure. And I would love to share with your audience, if anybody wants more marketing tips, I would invite you to join my group, I have a Facebook group called the Spa Marketing Forum [31:39] ____. 
 
31:40 TD: Okay, you guys, that's gonna be in the show notes, so definitely check the show notes. 
 
31:44 TJ: It'll be in the show notes, yup, there will be a link there, but yeah, I basically come on there once or twice a week and I share tips on marketing and ways that you can stay in the right mindset and things that you can actually actionably take away, like I shared today, tips like that on there, 'cause I do a Facebook Live on there once or twice a week, so I'd love to invite your... 
 
32:03 TD: Wow, that's a lot. 
 
32:05 TJ: Audience. Yes, I invite you to come and join me there and [32:09] ____. 
 
[overlapping conversation] 
 
32:09 TD: Where else can they find you on social media?  
 
32:11 TJ: Yeah, so I've got of course, Tazeem Jamal, Retail Sales Catalyst is my business page, and I have... I'm always open, people say to me, "Are you okay with me reaching out to you personally?" I don't have a problem with estheticians reaching out to me personally. Tazeem Jamal, you can find me on social media. On Instagram, it's actually Skindulgence, and I, tazeemjamaal.com is my website, so those are... That's where you can find me. 
 
32:37 TD: I think that sounds good. I'm sure they're gonna be finding you. [chuckle] 
 
32:41 TJ: Totally, I look forward to it. And then there's things I'm working on that I'm gonna be sharing with the ASCP community in regards to ways that people can work with me if they wanna come and coach with me. I do have different workshops and programs that I offer as well. So there's lots of different ways that people can work with me, and then don't forget about the free coaching, so if you wanna find out about the free coaching that I'm still offering once a month, I will be doing another one at the end of this month. So join my group to find out more. It is totally free. Obviously, you just have to give me your email address, so you'll get that information, but that's totally free, and you guys can join there if you want to ask me a question or just show up and listen, whatever you want, I'm there to be in service. 
 
33:20 TD: That's great, thank you so much, Tazeem. We're gonna have all of this information, everything that's been shared during this podcast in the show notes, so make sure that you're checking that out. There'll be links, all kinds of goodness, and I just wanna say it has been a pleasure to chat with you. Thank you so much, and we're looking forward to seeing all the... 
 
33:41 TJ: Oh, it's my pleasure, thank you. 
 
33:41 TD: Amazing, great things that you continue to do and inspire the community as a whole, so thank you. 
 
33:49 TJ: You're so welcome, thank you. I really appreciate this opportunity, grateful to be here and look forward to connecting with your members in a deeper way. 
 
[music] 
 
34:00 TD: Thanks for joining us today. If you like what you hear and you want more, subscribe. If you wanna belong to the only all-inclusive Association for estheticians that includes professional liability insurance, education, industry insights and an opportunity to spotlight your sick skills, join at ascpskincare.com, only $259 per year for all this goodness. ASCP knows it's all about you.