Ep 75 – Spoiler Alert: Men Have Skin Too!

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0:01:39.3 Speaker 1: You are listening to ASCP Esty Talk, where we share insider tips, industry resources, and education for estheticians at every stage of the journey. Let's talk, 'cause ASCP knows, it's all about you. 

 

0:01:54.4 Ella Cressman: Hello and welcome to ASCP Esty Talk. I am one of your co-hosts, Ella Cressman, licensed esthetician, certified organic skincare formulator and content contributor for Associated Skin Care Professionals. 

 

0:02:06.1 Maggie Staszcuk: And I am Maggie Staszcuk, licensed esthetician, ASCP advanced modality specialist. And education specialist. 

 

0:02:12.5 EC: Hi, Maggie. 

 

0:02:13.2 MS: Hey Ella. 

 

0:02:14.5 EC: I'm super excited about today's topic. It seems like I'm always excited about the day's... About every topic, but this one especially. 

 

0:02:20.9 MS: It is a good topic, I'm excited too. 

 

0:02:23.2 EC: Today, we're talking about men. Men's skincare specifically. But did you know that, something I found out that was very interesting is that the global men's skincare product market size was valued at $11.6 billion in 2019 and is expected to grow at a compound annual growth rate of 6.2% from 2020 to 2027. That is crazy to me. 

 

0:02:50.5 MS: It is crazy, it doesn't surprise me though. I think that men, they make the best clients. 

 

0:02:57.2 EC: Oh yeah. They really do. And this research organization is saying that they can contribute this increase in men's skincare to awareness of personal hygiene and grooming globally, and that is driving a demand for men's skincare products over the years. At a macro level, factors such as rising disposable income among consumers and a huge growth of distribution channels are contributing to the demand for men's skincare products worldwide. But, what else? Maggie what is, in your opinion, what makes men's skincare different?  

 

0:03:30.7 MS: I think that it really only has to do with fragrance. I don't think men's skincare is any different from women's skincare. 

 

0:03:37.7 EC: I have to agree with you whole-heartedly, I think what has happened is that men have realized what we have known for a long time, and that's that they have skin too. [chuckle] Right?  

 

0:03:48.5 MS: Yeah. 

 

0:03:48.7 EC: This whole industry has been, I guess if we look back in history, we can see that there have been grooming habits previously, like think about the colonial days or pre-colonial days, like in France, when they would use powdered wigs and face powder and moles and fake moles. Like I used to do when I thought I was Madonna in the '80s, and then also this blush stuff. So it's coming back, but for a long time, there was this association as if, "Oh men's skincare, we don't need it, we're burly and we build houses and we make roads, and so we don't need sunscreen." But I have to tell you, I have a younger brother and we were at a bar about three years ago, and we were sitting there talking, I think it was my birthday or his birthday so he took me out for a drink or I took him out for a drink, whatever it was. We were there. And the bartender said, "Oh, you guys are brother and sister? Oh, that's nice. Happy birthday. How old are you?" 

 

0:04:45.9 EC: And I'm whatever age, and he's like, "Yeah, I'm this age." And she goes, "Oh, you're younger?" And he's like, "Yeah." And she goes, "Did you spend a lot of time in the sun?" And it was from then on that my brother still diligently uses eye cream [chuckle] and sunscreen, 'cause he's like, "I don't wanna look older." And he's a burly guy, he's a construction worker, works out like a man's man, but it's a different change, I think, than it was 20 years ago. 30 years ago, the last 10 years have seen this big shift difference and we gotta take care of it, and it's cool. And it's cool to take care of it. But there are misconceptions. So what are some industry, so if we're looking at just the skincare industry, like the professional industry as far as treatments and such, because we've also seen that change. We've seen male-focused treatments, protocols, products even, that are... You're right. They're full of fragrance, full of manly scents. Maybe pheromones, maybe, yes but we'll talk about that in a second. But what are some misconceptions about male skincare as an education guru what are your thoughts?  

 

0:05:58.5 MS: I think that a lot of the misconceptions are that men's skin is thicker or its oiler and so it needs treatments that are specific to thick, oily skin or like you're saying, manly skin, burly skin. It's out in the sun, they're building the houses, working on the roads, whatever. But there's a correlation there because men are potentially doing these kinds of trades, they're out in the sun, and they aren't caring for their skin, so as a result, it is maybe thicker and tougher, and so there is an educational component there, they need to be using their sunscreen so that they're not breaking down that collagen and elastin and developing that leathery appearance to the skin. 

 

0:06:43.6 EC: Yes, I think so too. I think there's also those manly men that work but then you have... There's a lot of indoor jobs too, and for that, I think I used to say, I used to make the mistake of saying I do a lot of men in reference to my practice. And then I realized how that sounded. [laughter] I now say, "I have a large male clientele and I've had that for a long time." And what I've noticed about the male clientele that's changed and shifted is a couple of things. One is it used to be very like, "Psst, hey," looking side to side, "I'm here for my facial." It was hard to say out loud, sort of like, "Oh, you mean your treatment. You're here for your facial manly treatment?" "Yes, I'm here for that." And now it's not as big of a deal, but I see the same conditions present in men's skin as I do in female skin, and that is often aging or discoloration or sensitivity, more sensitivity than anything, and I think that links back to what Maggie said in what makes men's skin care different and that's fragrance. And I think that is one point that we should talk about, what do you think?  

 

0:07:51.3 MS: Yeah, I agree with you. I think that... And it is changing, men are more and more inclined to come in to get a treatment and get a facial, and are fine with saying that, but initially when men's products were coming out, it was made to smell manly because men didn't wanna be using a product that a woman was also using. "So this product is marketed specifically for you and it smells like a man, and it's okay, you can have this treatment and use this product because it's made just for you." 

 

0:08:21.8 EC: Yeah, and I wish I had that statistic, but I saw a statistic earlier that talked about the preference for... They called it androgynous products where they weren't... One way or the other super feminine and florally or super masculine, and I don't know, sand and woody. What makes a man scent besides BO. [laughter] I mean, whatever. Sorry guys, besides what would it be? Frankincense?  

 

[chuckle] 

 

0:08:49.2 MS: Patchouli. 

 

0:08:50.9 EC: Patchouli? Oh no, no, no, that is one of the scent that it's... Some people... Rose and patchouli for me? Oh no, no. So right in the middle, it would be something, I like fresh. I like to get fresh, I like to feel fresh. So I'll smell fresh, but anyways, there was a statistic that said 40% of the people... 60% excuse me, 60% of those people surveyed preferred non-identifying skincare products, not super burly not super masculine. I thought that was interesting because this was a survey done of male and female. The other thing about fragrance, and we kind of talked about this on our podcast with Kath De Jesus on makeup ingredients, but what hides in that fragrance that perfume or other things in that ingredient deck classification is anyone's Gus, and the reason is because the FDA has said they don't have to disclose what's in the fragrance category, which could be nothing harmful and benign, or it can be some really harmful components, they don't have to let you know because it's proprietary. The problem is, and this is a little bit of an unnecessary red alert, but also something to be aware of is that some of those components are hormone disruptors. So there's a contribution potentially to low sperm count and a change in testosterone levels, and that would be counterintuitive in my opinion. 

 

0:10:13.0 EC: Hey guys, stop. Let's take a quick break. 

 

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0:10:56.5 EC: Let's get back to the conversation. 

 

0:10:58.7 MS: Yeah, and I think it's important to know too that when you see fragrance on that ingredient deck, that actually could be hundreds of different compounds, for lack of a better word, making up that one fragrance. 

 

0:11:10.1 EC: Yes, it is. That's crazy. This is another interesting statistic. And I wish I could show you this pie chart, but I'm gonna do my best to describe it, in the Grand View Research group on grandviewresearch.com, did a search on global men's skincare products market share, and specifically, I wanted to understand the distribution channel, and so we have categories on here on where men's skincare is sold, bought and sold, sold and bought. I guess it would have to be sold first and bought. Whatever the order is chicken and the egg. And no surprise, there are some obvious players in this pie, so it's a pie chart, and the big chunk category is supermarkets and hypermarkets. So this makes sense to me, multitasking, I'm gonna pick up some bread, some protein powder and some skincare. The next one, the next largest piece of the pie that I found was interesting was convenience stores. 

 

0:12:10.8 MS: That is interesting. I've never thought about that. 

 

0:12:13.8 EC: What is it?  

 

0:12:14.5 MS: I think convenience store means many things in my mind that could be like, you're going to Walgreens or you're going to the grocery store, and it boils down to education. I think still for a lot of aestheticians, men is not a big market, and those men are not educated necessarily on what should they use on their face and where do they go and buy those products. So it's the "Convenience store." 

 

0:12:41.3 EC: Interesting, I was seeing 7-Eleven. I'm like, "Who buys eye cream at 7-Eleven?" I'm gonna search. [chuckle] 

 

0:12:48.7 MS: Yeah, that's true. I guess I didn't think 7-Eleven when I heard convenience store. 

 

0:12:53.5 EC: Perspective. 

 

0:12:54.3 MS: Yeah. 

 

0:12:54.4 EC: Interesting, I didn't think about that. Like what's convenient? 'Cause that makes sense too. Underneath that, we have pharmacies, which is about half of the convenience stores, where convenience stores is about two-thirds of hypermarkets and supermarkets, and then at about half of pharmacies, we have e-commerce, which makes sense, so they're buying it online, right? They are a success story for online marketing, which is a feat, and then the last one, and the very smallest pie section is others. And I have to assume, to Maggie's point that others includes professional practitioners, right?  

 

0:13:30.1 MS: Yeah, I think that would make sense. 

 

0:13:31.2 EC: That would be me and you. 

 

0:13:32.1 MS: Yeah. 

 

0:13:32.6 EC: So what are we doing? What are we doing to gain those clientele? They're looking for the products. Obviously, it's a 11.6 billion dollar business in 2019 and growing 6.2% every year. They're getting it from somewhere. We know we've both said that, we've seen... I've seen an uptick in male clientele, so what can we do different? How do we attract men [chuckle] into our treatment rooms?  

 

0:14:00.8 MS: Well, I'm curious for you, 'cause you say that you do treat a lot of men, so are you purposely targeting men? Or is it just happen chance that they're coming in and receiving service from you because more and more men want service?  

 

0:14:11.6 EC: The latter. It seems to be at the urging initially, like 15 years ago, so the urging of their spouse, "My husband needs to come and see you, he has black heads," that's usually how it started out and that has changed now into, "Oh, my husband, he uses all my products, and so I told him he has to come in here to get his own products," 'cause the way I educate my clients, that's when that happens and rarely is it sought out by random. I'm trying to think, most of my male clientele is all referrals, so I haven't really done a lot of actively pursuing male clientele. What do you think we should do about that? What advice would you give someone?  

 

0:14:51.0 MS: Well, I don't know. In the past, when I always thought about targeting men and treating men, that was a niche that specifically you were treating men versus, my target market is like the soccer mom, for instance, so your menu was all about men and you have the men product line, but to your point, I think industry is shifting and changing, and I think also manufacturers are kind of doing away with men product lines and it is more androgynous or neutral products that are for everybody, scent is neutral or its fresh. So does your marketing have to be specific to men? Or is it that men are just more open and educated and they want the treatments and they realize they need to take care of their skin?  

 

0:15:38.5 EC: To your point, Maggie, like men, the male clientele are excellent clientele, for one, they're very loyal and compliant, and so what I found with male clientele specifically is they wanna plan, they wanna know... Often I hear, "Just tell me when to show up. Just tell me what to buy and when to show up," and so with that, I don't take that lightly, I don't take advantage of that and don't bog them down with unnecessary treatments or unnecessary home care. I do create a home care plan that considers their lifestyle and what are they really gonna use, and I explain it to them in a certain, "This is why you need this, this is why you need to start with three or four products." But a lot of them are coming in, they're somewhat familiar because they've been using their wife's products, [chuckle] which is often how they're referred to me, or their friends or something, their girlfriends' products. So I think really creating structure and a plan is key, where it's easy to follow and easy to adhere to, and then they are the easiest clients, they show up when you tell them, and they leave fat tips. 

 

0:16:49.3 MS: That is the truth. They are really good tippers, no doubt. 

 

0:16:52.3 EC: Absolutely. And how about you, Maggie, have you ever... This is another question that I don't really experience but I know this is something. Some people maybe shy away from exploring or expanding a male clientele because they might feel uncomfortable, you're in a closed room and it's just the two of you. 

 

0:17:12.9 MS: Yeah, I've definitely had those male clients that cross the line or were inappropriate, I didn't shy away from having male clients, but it wasn't a demographic that I specifically marketed to, and I can think of instances where, there is one client in particular, I can think of that would come in on a regular basis for facials, and every time that product was applied to the skin or he got that massage, he would start moaning and try and reach back behind the bed to grab onto me. 

 

0:17:46.7 EC: What?  

 

0:17:48.1 MS: I mean, yeah, to the point where we're done facial is over, I'm gonna fire you as a client, and just, in general clients are weird men or women. I can think of another male client that he always referred to me as Polly and refused to come in to the spot, he would always open the front door and say, I'm here for Polly, and then wait outside on the sidewalk. And so I'd have to come outside the spa to get him, and he was always there for full arm wax. But he would say, "Polly, I just love you and I'll follow you wherever you go." So another bizzare... 

 

0:18:27.3 EC: A super fan... 

 

0:18:29.0 MS: Yeah, super fan, bizzare super fan. 

 

0:18:31.2 EC: Did he know your name wasn't Polly?  

 

0:18:33.4 MS: I don't know what he knew. He was just weird. Straight up weird. 

 

0:18:37.7 EC: Oh my goodness. I've never had a situation where I didn't feel comfortable. I did have someone reach out to me on social media wanting to book an appointment and then wanting... Asking really creepy questions about the appointment. It was a waist down waxing appointment. So at first, "Do wax chest?" "Yes," "Do you wax backs?" "Yes," "Do you wax anything else?" "Yes." [chuckle] "Do you wax buttcheeks?" And I'm like, "Alright, done. Busy." [chuckle] I'm gonna give you a number of somebody who's not. 

 

0:19:08.1 MS: Looking for a full body hair. 

 

0:19:09.8 EC: Yeah, then they found my personal... This was on my professional page, and then they found my personal Instagram, so professionally reached out on Facebook and then found my personal Instagram and tried a friend request, that was the only creepy situation, but they were never... I never felt vulnerable when they were in my treatment room. 

 

0:19:25.5 MS: Yeah, that's kind of stalker-ish. 

 

0:19:27.6 EC: Creepy. But Maggie, that's not all men. That's not always the thing. We have weird female clienteles too. 

 

0:19:36.2 MS: Entirely, and we could rattle off a million stories about our weird female clients. Absolutely, I think the important thing to know is setting boundaries with your clients male or female, and if you are feeling uncomfortable in your treatment space with your male client, knowing when to say no, knowing when to tell the client, "I'm sorry, this treatment is over," or "That's not included with this treatment," and being able to tell that client, "I'm sorry, service is over, and it's time for you to get up off the bed and you need to go." 

 

0:20:10.7 EC: Yeah, and I think understanding that those instances are far, few and far between, and so don't punish the entire gender for that, because there are a large population of really good clientele who just wanna look and feel their best. 

 

0:20:32.5 MS: Yes, entirely. And going back to what we were talking about earlier, I think men in general are wanting that, they want to care for their skin, they want the right products, they want to be educated, and we're seeing that in the industry as a whole, and your pie chart shows that they just need that direction, and if you market to them, you're going to find a huge demographic and potential revenue to build your business with men's skincare. 

 

0:21:02.0 EC: Absolutely. Now listeners, we wanna hear from you what are your thoughts on men's skincare? Both in the professional treatment room and the retail market. Let us know on social media, Twitter, Instagram, Facebook, or by email, and get connected at ascpskincare.com. We wanna know all the details. In the meantime, thank you for listening to ASCP Esty Talk. For more information on this episode or for ways to connect with Maggie, myself, or to learn more about ASCP, check out the show notes and stay tuned for the next episode of ASCP Esty Talk. 

 

0:21:34.9 S1: Thanks for joining us today. If you like what you hear and you want more, subscribe, if you wanna belong to the only all inclusive association for estheticians that includes professional liability insurance, education, industry insights and an opportunity to spotlight your sick skills, join at ascpskincare.com, only $259 per year for all this goodness. ASCP knows, it's all about you.