Ep 87 – Do As I Say, Not As I Do

0:00:00.7 Speaker 1: You are listening to ASCP Esty Talk, where we share insider tips, industry resources and education for estheticians at every stage of the journey. Let's talk, 'cause ASCP knows it's all about you. 

 

0:00:16.3 Speaker 2: Hello and welcome to ASCP Esty Talk. I'm Maggie Staszcuk, ASCP's Advanced Modality Specialist and Education Specialist. 

 

0:00:23.1 Speaker 3: And I'm Ella Cressman, licensed esthetician, certified organic skincare formulator and content contributor for Associated Skin Care Professionals. 

 

0:00:30.4 S2: And joining us today is Tracy Donley, Executive Director for ASCP. 

 

0:00:34.0 Speaker 4: Hi guys, I'm just along for the ride. I can't wait to hear. 

 

0:00:38.2 S2: Happy to have you with us, Tracy. I think it is safe to say that estheticians are a caring, nurturing group of professionals, but they don't always extend that same care to themselves, would you agree Ella?  

 

0:00:49.4 S3: I would agree, I think this is definitely... As we're coining this, "Do as I say, not as I do, and listen, heed my advice, but don't follow my example." 

 

0:01:00.9 S2: Yeah, totally. I think it's really interesting, whether you're a consumer or esthetician, we are obsessed with knowing the skin care routines of estheticians, whether we are... Well, for me, checking my newsfeed, I always am scrolling through, which is not very newsy. [chuckle] I will add by the way. But all these articles are always popping up, knowing that skin care tip from the latest esthetician or this esthetician has advised you should do X, Y, Z. I'm seeing it on social media or even just out in public, people are saying, "What are you using?" Or, "Such and such skin looks amazing, this person recommended blah, blah, blah." But in truth, how often do estheticians follow their own advice?  

 

0:01:44.7 S4: Oh, I'm so excited to hear this. 

 

0:01:46.4 S2: Have you ever found yourself touting golden rules to clients and then thinking in the back of your mind, "Do as I say, not as I do?" 

 

0:01:54.2 S3: About every day. 

 

[chuckle] 

 

0:01:55.9 S4: Oh, confessions. 

 

0:02:00.1 S3: So one of the things... Most of my practice is centered around corrective skin care. A lot of that has deep analysis and consultation and considerations of lifestyle and things going on, right? So my do as I say, not as I do moment comes on the heels of that. When I was a sales rep, it was probably, gosh, maybe six or seven years ago, I had one of those days, where you're banging on doors, nobody's buying your product. And I'm coming home and I'm thinking, "Gosh, why doesn't anyone wanna buy my stuff?" And I'm driving west, looking in the rear-view mirror and it's that magical lighting of the rear-view mirror is perfect for tweezing. 

 

0:02:44.4 S4: Oh, it's so good. It's too good. 

 

0:02:46.1 S3: It's not good if you're having a bad day. 

 

0:02:47.9 S4: Yeah. 

 

[chuckle] 

 

0:02:48.7 S3: And so, I looked in there, I'm like, "No wonder, how these like... " I could just see every single imperfection, you know? I'm like, "That's it, I'm peeling myself as soon as I get home." 

 

[chuckle] 

 

0:03:00.4 S4: Oh, gosh. 

 

0:03:00.5 S3: So I go, get out a Jessner's peel, as soon as I get home, out of my demo bag. And I don't prep the way I need to prep. I hadn't been prepping at home, which is so important, so I had to just hastily slapped this acid on. Layer one, layer two before I noticed this drip down my nose to the side of my cheek and then it was frosting. It's horrible. I'm gonna stop here. So I stopped at three layers of a Jessner's peel, which is about normal. A couple days later, there was an event, a professional event that we were at. And a lot of professionals, local professionals, including Dr. Ben Johnson of Osmosis, and have you guys seen Dr. Ben Johnson of Osmosis?  

 

0:03:43.1 S4: He's a... 

 

0:03:43.2 S2: Of course. 

 

0:03:43.6 S4: He's a hottie. Love that... 

 

0:03:44.0 S3: He is dreamy. 

 

0:03:45.7 S4: Love that blue suit he always wears. 

 

0:03:47.5 S3: And 'cause it brings out his Caribbean blue eyes. 

 

0:03:50.4 S4: Oh my gosh, they do, yeah. 

 

0:03:51.9 S3: Oh, and his dark hair. 

 

0:03:53.2 S4: Yes. 

 

0:03:53.3 S3: And I just read his book, so I was fan-girling anyways, his book on inflammation and I was like, "I'm gonna go introduce myself." 

 

0:04:01.2 S2: He's there?  

 

0:04:01.4 S3: He's there. 

 

0:04:02.1 S2: He's there?  

 

0:04:02.6 S3: Amongst the other professionals, and I confidently walk up to him and waiting for my chance to jump into the conversation, and he said something... Somebody said something and people laughed, and you do as when you're around people, you politely laugh too. [chuckle] And I could hear that drip mark on my nose and my cheek snapped, that skin popped. [laughter] You know, when that skin wants to come up which was at two days later, I was like... [chuckle] And I just quickly put my hand on my face, I grabbed my elbow with my other hand... 

 

0:04:37.0 S4: Oh no, that does not look normal. 

 

0:04:37.2 S3: As if I was thinking about some things. 

 

0:04:39.3 S4: Oh please. 

 

[laughter] 

 

0:04:40.5 S3: And I excused myself. And what I want to share is do as I say, not as I do. There's a few things you should not do emotionally, that is you should not emotionally eat, you should not emotionally drink alcohol and you should not emotionally peel your face off. That is the moral. 

 

0:04:56.6 S4: Or pluck your brows. 

 

[laughter] 

 

0:04:58.6 S3: Yes. 

 

0:05:00.9 S4: Amen. 

 

0:05:01.0 S3: Yeah. 

 

0:05:01.1 S2: Or pick your face, right?  

 

[chuckle] 

 

0:05:02.6 S3: Oh, pick your face. 

 

[chuckle] 

 

0:05:03.8 S2: Which is what I always do and always tell my clients, never, never do. You got a little break out, you come and see me, I will extract that puppy for you. And I heard you say, Ella, the car has amazing lighting, which is so true. When I'm sitting in that passenger seat, it's like habit. I pop that mirror down [laughter] and start looking, what's got to go. And it's so funny, because my husband is like, "This is pick free zone. Put that mirror up." [laughter] There is no picking. And I swear I cannot help it. Even in the house, it's like, sauteing on the oven and I'm like, "I'm just gonna go pop around to the mirror real quick. I feel something. I've gotta pick it." It's like every spare second... 

 

0:05:42.5 S3: It's that perfect lighting. 

 

0:05:43.6 S2: I know and I find myself feeling too, "What's... Oh there's something there. I'll be right back. I gotta go pick it." 

 

0:05:49.1 S4: Yeah. How... 

 

0:05:49.4 S2: I cannot help it. 

 

0:05:50.7 S4: How about those mirrors? I actually feel like I wanna call ahead to hotels and say, "Listen, if you have one of those mag mirrors in the bathroom, I need it removed before I show up, because I do not have the personal restraint [laughter] to not just pull up a chair right there and just turn that light on and go to town." 

 

0:06:11.5 S3: Go to town. 

 

0:06:12.1 S4: And then you look like a big tomato face. 

 

0:06:14.8 S2: Yes. Do it... I'm all, do it. Yeah. 

 

0:06:17.6 S4: I just... I actually have even said to our editor, Mary, of Skin Deep magazine, I've even said, "Mary, if I am not down here to meet you within five minutes give or take, you need to come and knock on the door like a mad woman and just pull me out, 'cause I'm sucked... " 

 

0:06:33.8 S3: And bring ice. 

 

0:06:34.9 S4: In deep. 

 

0:06:35.8 S3: That's how I feel at the dressing room at Nordstrom Rack. 

 

[laughter] 

 

0:06:38.6 S3: There's something about the light. 

 

[laughter] 

 

0:06:41.1 S3: The lighting in those places, and that urge that Maggie's talking about, I'm up in there trying on the pants for one minute and the other nine minutes I'm setting them free. And I come out so red-faced and not even embarrassed. I am sure that they are like, "What just happened?" [laughter] 

 

0:07:00.4 S4: Okay, question for you then, on this. Have you ever found one of those little needles that maybe were from men shirts in the dressing room and been like, "I'm just gonna hook that... " 

 

0:07:09.8 S3: No!  

 

0:07:10.2 S4: Okay... [laughter] 

 

0:07:11.5 S2: I haven't either. 

 

0:07:13.0 S4: There's a... 

 

0:07:13.6 S2: Never... 

 

[laughter] 

 

0:07:14.9 S3: No. 

 

0:07:15.2 S2: Not judging... But no. [laughter] 

 

0:07:16.5 S4: Okay... 

 

[laughter] 

 

0:07:17.0 S2: Yeah, never... 

 

0:07:18.2 S4: Like, hi, staph infection. 

 

0:07:19.9 S3: But do you wanna talk about embarrassing stories, speaking of mirrors and things you shouldn't do, there's one story. I had to go to... I was on my way to a lunch, and I had to get something for my dog at PetSmart. And so on the way, at a red light, in that perfect lighting, I noticed on my chin... Not chin, my neck... This long hair and I went to grab it. And I saw my skin move out. And I was a good inch or two away from my skin, so I was like, "Oh my God, is this an anomaly? What's going on?" And then I got a little closer, as close as I could get, at a red light, and I'm like, "It's black... " 

 

0:07:58.4 S2: Did you wanna take a selfie?  

 

0:08:00.5 S3: I had a goatee. 

 

[chuckle] 

 

0:08:01.9 S3: I had, like a 15-year-old beard. You know what I'm talking about?  

 

0:08:06.1 S4: Yeah. 

 

0:08:06.8 S3: So, I was panicked all through PetSmart. I'm like, "Oh my gosh, are they gonna think that I need to be here, in the grooming department? Like... " 

 

[laughter] 

 

0:08:16.0 S3: I'm human... I was ducking my chin, and I'm panicking, panicking. I get out to my car, looking for the tweezers that I normally have for the red light eyebrow tweezing, and I can't find them anywhere. And I'm frantically searching through the console, and this other little pocket thing, that secret little one that I have, and then I come across a book of matches. 

 

0:08:34.5 S4: I'm scared... 

 

0:08:36.0 S3: No... 

 

0:08:36.0 S4: I don't even want to know. 

 

0:08:37.7 S3: No tweezers, just a book of matches... 

 

0:08:40.4 S4: Oh my God. 

 

0:08:40.8 S3: So I take this, and I'm like, "It's gotta go." 

 

0:08:43.8 S2: No, Ella... 

 

0:08:44.8 S3: I take the matches out... First of all, why do I have matches. I don't even camp. But, whatever... 

 

[laughter] 

 

0:08:49.2 S3: Thank god. It was like divine intervention. 

 

[laughter] 

 

0:08:52.2 S3: 'Cause there is no way... 

 

0:08:53.4 S4: Or, it wasn't... 

 

0:08:55.0 S3: There's... Somebody put them in my car, I think it was my angels. So I struck the match and I held it just under my chin, and I watched it sizzle up. 

 

0:09:05.7 S4: No... 

 

0:09:06.1 S3: One, two, three, four, five hairs sizzle up! So there wasn't... This was not a lone ranger. 

 

0:09:13.3 S2: Oh... 

 

0:09:13.7 S3: This was a sole patch. 

 

0:09:15.0 S4: Oh, my, god! [laughter] 

 

[laughter] 

 

0:09:17.2 S4: I mean, what does your car smell like at this point? This isn't one hair... 

 

0:09:21.5 S3: I was just like, "Oh my God, this is happening. " And then, I'm like, "I think I got'em... I think I got'em." And I blow my match out. And then just right then... 

 

[chuckle] 

 

0:09:34.9 S3: Someone was knocking on my window, and I was like, "Should I turn? Should I turn?" I slowly turn and I look, and it was a homeless person like, "Ma'am can you spare a dollar?" And I was like, "I am not the one. I just burnt my facial hair off with a match in a car." 

 

[laughter] 

 

0:09:52.4 S3: I'm not the one. And then I drove away and I realized what had transpired, and I was horrified. So, I immediately called and got an appointment for laser hair removal, and I've been there ever since, but do as I say, not as I do. 

 

0:10:07.0 S4: Where do you go from there? I mean, that is insanity. 

 

0:10:11.3 S3: The only way is up. 

 

0:10:12.6 S4: Oh, okay, I like that. Yeah, up. 

 

0:10:15.5 S2: That makes me think of a story. I always trim my eyebrows as part of tweezing and waxing. And one day I got it in my mind, why should I trim them with scissors, I'm just gonna take an electric razor, put on a really long guard, that's gonna work... 

 

[laughter] 

 

0:10:31.8 S4: Oh my god... 

 

0:10:32.8 S2: That's gonna work so much better. Right?  

 

[chuckle] 

 

0:10:35.5 S4: In theory. 

 

0:10:36.7 S2: In theory... 

 

0:10:37.8 S3: Oh yeah. 

 

0:10:38.5 S2: So I took the longest guard for the razor I could find... 

 

0:10:41.7 S3: Oh, jeez... 

 

0:10:43.1 S2: And you all know where it's going. It didn't go that way, I didn't go as planned. I literally buzzed off my entire eyebrow... 

 

0:10:50.7 S3: Oh my gosh! Not even Vanilla Iced it. 

 

0:10:52.7 S4: So, the best question always is, when that happens do you go ahead and make it matching? Or do you leave one good one and one jacked up one?  

 

0:11:01.1 S2: Swipe bangs. 

 

[chuckle] 

 

0:11:02.4 S2: I made the other one match... 

 

[laughter] 

 

0:11:05.8 S4: Oh my Gosh!  

 

[laughter] 

 

0:11:11.2 S3: That was a look, back in the day... 

 

0:11:11.3 S2: Cousins not twins... 

 

[laughter] 

 

0:11:16.0 S2: I couldn't have one missing eyebrow... 

 

[laughter] 

 

0:11:20.2 S2: 'Cause it just says, an accident happened, right? People wanna know what happened to you. 

 

0:11:24.8 S3: Yeah. Like an accident... 

 

0:11:25.7 S2: Yeah, and I figured... Oh my God, I'm crying... 

 

[laughter] 

 

0:11:30.4 S2: I figured one missing eyebrow. Well, that doesn't look right. [chuckle] Gotta make it a pair. [laughter] 

 

0:11:39.5 S4: So did you pencil?  

 

0:11:40.1 S3: Were you doing like really... Like art?  

 

0:11:42.0 S2: Yeah, so I'll have two missing eyebrows and just draw 'em in. 

 

0:11:46.1 S3: Well, what are some other golden rules that we preach, but as estheticians don't necessarily follow?  

 

0:11:52.5 S2: Well, SPF I think is definitely one. I hear so many people that they're uncomfortable with SPF, they don't like the stickiness. Even as estheticians, I think that's true, and there are plenty of times that I'm like I want that intentional burn. I will say, I do not tan, but I have it in my head sometimes, "Baby, I am gonna tan, it's gonna happen this time." 

 

[laughter] 

 

0:12:14.1 S3: What's that? Thomas the train it. 

 

0:12:16.6 S2: I think I can... 

 

0:12:17.0 S3: I think I can. 

 

0:12:18.4 S2: I think I can. 

 

0:12:19.3 S3: I think I tan... I think I tan. 

 

0:12:20.3 S2: Yep. 

 

0:12:20.9 S3: I think I tan. 

 

0:12:22.3 S2: A 100%. 

 

0:12:24.9 S3: How about your skincare routine, do you follow... 

 

0:12:27.1 S4: Wait, wait, wait. I have a question though. 

 

0:12:27.9 S3: Yeah!  

 

0:12:29.0 S4: Do either of you, put sunscreen on your hands?  

 

0:12:33.1 S3: On a... 

 

0:12:33.9 S4: Regular Basis. 

 

0:12:34.8 S3: No. 

 

0:12:35.5 S4: Do you wear driving gloves?  

 

0:12:37.5 S3: No. 

 

[chuckle] 

 

0:12:39.0 S3: But people do, and I don't... And you could see, my left hand looks younger than my right hand because I put product on my left hand before I put it on my clients face. It's like my palate. So I'm well aware that it works. I'm well aware of what the UV damage is. I'm very well-versed in that. 

 

0:13:00.2 S4: Okay, one more question then. Do you guys get gel manicures?  

 

0:13:03.3 S3: No. 

 

0:13:04.3 S4: Okay. 

 

0:13:05.6 S2: But that's UV. 

 

[chuckle] 

 

0:13:06.5 S2: And that is UV, yeah. 

 

0:13:08.3 S4: And I think that there should be a mass education out there where you should have to put sunscreen on your hands before you put them in the UV light. 

 

0:13:19.0 S3: Yeah. 

 

0:13:19.4 S4: They should make that or they should give you special little fingertip-less gloves. 

 

0:13:23.0 S3: Yeah. 

 

0:13:24.0 S2: What about a routine? Do you follow a routine, like a regimen?  

 

0:13:28.0 S4: I do. 

 

0:13:28.6 S2: You do?  

 

0:13:29.1 S4: I do, yeah. I do. 

 

0:13:30.8 S3: I mean, it's not necessarily a good one. [chuckle] Do you know how many steps?  

 

0:13:34.3 S2: Two or three?  

 

0:13:35.8 S3: How 'bout you Tracy?  

 

0:13:37.8 S4: Well, my evening step is that I wash my face off with micellar water, which is probably not ideal. But then I have three steps and then I do three steps in addition to cleansing in the shower in the morning. 

 

0:13:52.5 S3: I top off at three steps. Now that changes, I still have 174 different products. 

 

0:13:57.5 S4: I know, right?  

 

0:13:58.3 S3: But it changes all the time. 

 

0:14:00.5 S4: That's a question. I mean, from an esthetician, do you feel that it is a good idea or a bad idea to change up the serums, let's say, or the cleanser that you're using on a daily basis? And how often should people be changing them?  

 

0:14:20.0 S2: I don't think daily. 

 

0:14:21.2 S3: Same. 

 

0:14:22.3 S2: I think it's good, though, to change your regiment regimen every so often. 

 

0:14:25.7 S4: So if like you're flipping back and forth between four different serums during the week?  

 

0:14:29.7 S2: I think that's too much. 

 

0:14:30.7 S3: It's too much because it doesn't give the skin time to feel... Think about the skin as a child. Is it going to feel secure if it's constantly being changed, the routine?  

 

0:14:40.3 S4: No. 

 

0:14:40.6 S3: But if you slowly integrate it, seasonally or whatever, it's good. And that's how you want to take care of it. So, absolutely skin care products should be changed, but it doesn't have to be every day. 

 

0:14:52.0 S2: But there's something to be said... I teach my clients to listen to their skin and I teach them how to figure that out for their own personal selves. But I also strongly let them know that I'm in charge. 

 

[laughter] 

 

0:15:07.0 S2: And they have to come back to get the professional guidance, which is... 

 

0:15:09.9 S4: And that was gonna be my next question. So if a client should be changing up, if changing the products that they use is important, how are you making sure that you're recommending specific products so that they are changing it up. Because some people are creatures of habit. 

 

0:15:27.8 S3: Oh no, mine are on their toes. Seasonally on their toes all the time. 

 

[laughter] 

 

0:15:31.8 S3: I'll just say... And I'll explain that too. Especially if it's an expensive product. This is an expensive product, you're going to use it for one course and then we're going to change. Because our goal is to change your skin. Once that change happens we're gonna put it on a different product. So here's one do as I say, not as I do. How do you guys feel about online skin care purchasing?  

 

0:15:50.2 S2: You mean just purchasing the product? Or you think, the whole consultation?  

 

0:15:54.6 S3: No, just products. From marketing, target marketing. 

 

0:15:58.5 S2: I think that there are some companies that do a good job where you could take a quiz, find out what's right for you, they make good recommendations, but ultimately I think the consumer is going to get the best regimen for them by actually seeing someone in person. Having that skin analysis, getting the recommendation based on what the esthetician is seeing. 

 

0:16:20.1 S4: Oh, I agree. As a consumer, I prefer to be able to get a product and know that if something doesn't perform the way I want it to, whether it's a negative or a reaction or whatever, I want to know that I can go to an esthetician, my esthetician, and say, "What's going on? What's happening? Am I putting it on wrong? Am I putting it on at the wrong time of day?" There's so many assumptions that you could make with skin care. 

 

0:16:49.7 S3: I agree with both of those statements, but I still buy skin care online. And I do that... [chuckle] I do that, I got... First of all, 'cause I'm a sucker for targeted marketing on Instagram, and second, I buy it to give my client's permission to not have to. I bought that. I tried it. It does not work. Or it does work, and this is how it works. The latest thing I fell victim to was this neck tightening thing. One that Christie Brinkley has. 

 

[laughter] 

 

0:17:16.1 S4: Oh my god. 

 

0:17:16.4 S2: Well, if Christie Brinkley's selling it, it must work. 

 

0:17:19.8 S3: Yeah. [laughter] It must work. Yeah, you know these young other people. I think I was like "Oh, I have to have that." 'Cause I'm of that age and genetically we have this gobbler. 

 

0:17:29.6 S4: Oh, if you're talking tools, I'm gonna buy every tool. I thought you were talking... 

 

0:17:33.3 S3: No, this is a serum. I've got the tools too... 

 

0:17:35.1 S4: Oh, a serum? I'm all about the tools. 

 

0:17:36.4 S3: No tools, but I got. I got it and it's not working. But I got it and now I can go, "No, it doesn't work." So, do as I say, don't buy it. But not as I do, because I buy it. [chuckle] 

 

0:17:46.6 S4: Have you guys seen the face masks that you can sleep in that keep your skin tight? And I don't mean like a product face mask that comes from K-Beauty, like Korean beauty. 

 

0:17:56.1 S3: No. 

 

0:17:56.9 S4: You look like a mummy. It's like an ace bandage for your face. [chuckle] 

 

0:18:00.1 S2: Wow, no haven't seen that. 

 

0:18:01.5 S4: I've been so tempted to buy it but. I mean now I can 'cause I'm divorced. I don't even have anybody who's sleeping next to me. So, I could totally just wear it and be like, "Nothing to see here." 

 

0:18:10.6 S3: I'm not, but my spouse is so supportive. I'd be like, "Babe, I'm going to bed." 

 

[laughter] 

 

0:18:16.5 S3: Good night. I'll leave my lips out. 

 

[laughter] 

 

0:18:21.0 S4: He's like, "Okay!" 

 

0:18:22.9 S2: Do you have one of those LED baseball caps too?  

 

0:18:26.6 S3: No. 

 

0:18:27.0 S2: Oh. 

 

0:18:27.4 S3: I should get one. 

 

0:18:28.1 S4: You should get one. 

 

0:18:28.4 S3: I have a lot of things. I moved recently and I'm like "What the hell? Why?" [chuckle] You know like boxes, plural, of things I'm like, "Huh." so... 

 

0:18:37.8 S2: I keep a cold roller in my car. 

 

0:18:39.1 S3: Oh!  

 

0:18:39.6 S4: Oh that so fun. It passes the time when you're in traffic. 

 

0:18:43.0 S3: Yes, absolutely. What about regular facials? You get them, Tracy. 

 

0:18:46.6 S4: Yes, and I should get them more. I should. 

 

0:18:49.6 S2: We've talked about this, I think, on the show before. Where estheticians, I think in general, just aren't going and treating themselves. 

 

0:18:57.4 S3: Yeah. 

 

0:18:58.0 S4: But the fact said 'treating yourselves' is where the problem begins. Because it's not a treat. It's a lifestyle. 

 

0:19:06.8 S2: It's not a treat because, well for me, I'm lying on the bed and thinking, "Why is she doing it that way?" 

 

0:19:12.4 S4: Oh! That makes sense. 

 

0:19:13.6 S3: Ew, I don't like that product. What's that smell?  

 

0:19:15.6 S4: Oh, you're judgy. 

 

0:19:16.9 S2: Yeah. 

 

0:19:17.3 S4: You're judgy. 

 

0:19:18.4 S2: Yeah. Pretty much. Judean. 

 

0:19:20.1 S4: Do you think, "Oh, I could just do this myself." 

 

0:19:21.9 S2: Yeah. 

 

0:19:22.2 S3: Yeah. 

 

0:19:23.2 S4: But you can't really see that extraction. 

 

0:19:25.1 S2: No. 

 

0:19:25.4 S4: You can't really see that pore. 

 

0:19:27.2 S2: I can see that extraction, Tracy. 

 

0:19:29.0 S4: Okay, okay. 

 

0:19:29.5 S2: In the car at the red light. 

 

[laughter] 

 

0:19:34.7 S2: Now listeners, we want to hear from you. Do you ever bend the rules when it comes to skin care and don't always practice what you preach? Or maybe there is a golden rule you always live by. Reach out on social media, Twitter, Instagram, Facebook or by emailing getconnected@ascpskincare.com. Until next time, thank you for listening to ASCP Esty Talk. For more information on this episode, or for ways to connect with Ella or myself, or learn more about ASCP, check out the show notes. Stay tuned for the next episode of ASCP Esty Talk. 

 

0:20:05.0 S1: Thanks for joining us today. If you like what you hear and you want more, subscribe. If you wanna belong to the only all inclusive association for estheticians that includes professional liability insurance, education, industry insights and an opportunity to spotlight your sick skills, join at ascpskincare.com. Only $259 per year for all this goodness. ASCP knows it's all about you.Page Break