Ep 298 – The Devil Wears (Beef) Tallow

0:00:00.5 Speaker 1: This podcast is sponsored by LAMPROBE. LAMPROBE is a popular aesthetic tool that enables skincare practitioners to rapidly treat a wide variety of common minor skin irregularities or MSI. Red MSI treated by LAMPROBE include dilated capillaries and cherry angiomas, yellow MSI cholesterol deposits and sebaceous hyperplasia and brown MSI treated include skin tags and more. LAMPROBE MSI treatments are non invasive and deliver immediate results. LAMPROBE can empower your skin practice with these new and highly in demand services. For more information, visit lamprobe.com, that's L-A-M-P-R-O-B-E.com. And follow LAMPROBE on social media, @lamprobe.

0:01:00.1 Ella Cressman: Hello, and welcome to ASCP Esty Talk. I'm Ella Cressman, a licensed esthetician, certified organic skincare formulator, international educator and content contributor for Associated Skin Care Professionals.

0:01:12.5 Maggie Staszcuk: I'm Maggie Staszcuk, licensed esthetician and ASCP's education program manager.

0:01:17.5 EC: We have a shout out. I'm so excited about this shout out. So about a month ago I was at my cousin's wedding, and the long story short is, you know, I'm a makeup artist. Let me rephrase. You know, I was a makeup artist. [chuckle] I retired. I had the best wedding ever in Memphis, Tennessee. It's going out on top. I threw everything away. And then, a couple years later my cousin called and she's like, "Can you do my makeup and my hair?" I'm like, "Okay". Bought a bunch of stuff, went, went to that wedding, gave it away to the other makeup artist there. I'm like, "Here, take it". And then two weeks later, my other cousin, "Can you do my hair and makeup for my wedding?" So long story short, I have one cousin left that I will do her hair and makeup for her wedding. But this was the second to the last, and I love this family. This family is the only one I'll do it for. But anyways, very, very special to me. So we are in Austin, Minnesota, getting ready and I meet Mariah Ramos and she is there doing everybody else's hair and makeup and she's so cute.

0:02:19.0 EC: So she works at a Med Spa in the Austin, Minnesota town and I had a great time with her. Super talented, super sweet. So I wanna say hi Mariah, nice to meet you and thank you for listening to Esty Talk. So it was a good time. Next time we go, you'll have to come.

0:02:34.9 MS: Yes, I would love to come.

0:02:35.9 EC: Okay, cool. So do you remember... Before we get into today's subject, did you ever see the Devil Wears Prada?

0:02:43.1 MS: Of course. Many times.

0:02:45.6 EC: Such a good movie.

0:02:46.3 MS: Yeah.

0:02:46.7 EC: Do you remember that part where Meryl Streep's character, Miranda Priestly, she, like, goes off on him? Well, I guess she goes off on a couple times, but Anne Hathaway's character is she ends up scoffing at them because they're going, "I don't know which belt, this one or that one". And she goes, phh. Because she's... They look both the same. So Miranda Priestly said something to the effect of, "Oh", something funny. And she's like, "Well, they look pretty much like the same thing". I'm just learning about this stuff. And then she launches in on her and says, like, one of my favorite quotes. But long story short, this part I just wanna share with you. She said, "This stuff. Oh, okay. I see. You think this has nothing to do with you. You go to your closet and you select, I don't know, that lumpy blue sweater, for instance, because you're trying to tell the world that you don't take care of your... That you don't take yourself too seriously and care about what you put on your back". So she goes into explaining that lumpy blue sweater. She doesn't even understand that there's a correlation between these trends that were set, that it's not turquoise, it's not lapis, it's actually cerulean blue.

0:04:00.9 EC: And that cerulean blue was a result of Yves Saint Laurent, who showed it in a military jacket on the Couture Runway. And then it kind of took off. This trend translated and she said, and then it trickled down on into something tragic, like Casual Corner, where you no doubt fished it out in some clearance bin. You remember that part?

0:04:23.9 MS: I do, yeah.

0:04:25.1 EC: I loved that part because she was like, "Oh, no. You don't even know that you are in on this too, even though you're scoffing at it". So it made me think, because we often see other trends, whether food, care, fashion, they end up in esthetics, or vice versa, aesthetic trends will influence the world. But we focus a lot on perceived trends, what's coming up, what's going to be popular, and don't really consider, like, where they're coming from. And the truth is, a lot of it's coming from manufacturers. Whether it's product manufacturers or ingredient suppliers, they're the ones that are driving the trends. But one thing that we don't consider is what are the professionals really think about those trends once they get there, once they're mainstream, what do the pros think? So, of course, I'm creeping. I feel like I have to keep you in the loop. I'm creeping on social media and I come across this post that I thought was hilarious, it reminded me of this scene. So what they posted and I have to give credit to who it is, but it's from an esthetician's point of view regarding trends. So it's from the Facebook group, Esthetician Support Group.

0:05:39.9 EC: And I can't take credit. Again, it's Dani McKnight. So she posted back in November, so a while ago, what's everyone's least favorite skin trend right now? So if I had to ask you, think about right now or even a couple months ago, what's your least favorite skin trend?

0:05:56.1 MS: That is a really good question, Ella. I feel like there have been so many fleeting trends and we've talked a lot about them in the past year. And I would have to say the ones that you just go, what? Like, you know, snail mucin or this probably was in 2024, but you know, contouring with your sunscreen. I mean, just those silly ones that as an esthetician you go, "What? That's not, that's not real".

0:06:25.8 EC: Or the salmon one.

0:06:27.5 MS: Yes, or the...

0:06:28.2 EC: The salmon one.

0:06:28.3 MS: Salmon one. Yeah.

0:06:29.9 EC: Like, what is going on? Why is this one? So the results are in. So luckily Dani did us a service and reported the results. She said there were over 250 comments. And before I get into the top three, let's talk about the honorable mentions. Jelly masks. I could see that, like falling out of favor. Did you... Have you ever tried a jelly mask?

0:06:53.0 MS: Yeah. You know, I'm not a big masker just as a whole and I can see the fun behind them. And so sure, they were trending for a while, but...

0:07:05.0 EC: No, I hated them. Let me tell you, they were not fun for me either as a practitioner or a consumer. I think I'm a little claustrophobic. So I had a facial once where it went on and I was like, "Oh", I wanted to pull it off. So not fun for me. And then when I bought all this stuff, I did one treatment. It was a mess. It was horrible. And then it went into the cupboard. I think it's still there and I think it's probably expired. I don't even know. The next is brow laminations, tints and airbrushing. What do you think about that?

0:07:35.6 MS: First of all, I would not clump them all into the same category. I get it. But I love tinting. Tinting has been around for decades. I don't consider that a trend. And I think it'll always be something people do. Laminations, sure. I did not get into it. There's a few people that loved it. Kick it to the curb.

0:07:55.9 EC: Out of Maggie's book. Out, out.

0:07:57.9 MS: And then you said spray tanning.

0:08:00.6 EC: Oh, airbrushing. I don't remember.

0:08:00.6 MS: Airbrushing.

0:08:01.3 EC: Maybe airbrushing brows. Okay.

0:08:03.9 MS: I don't know. To me, my mind went to tanning, but I don't know.

0:08:08.6 EC: I don't know. Brow lamination, you know, I did see it work for one. This client had like a cowlick in her eyebrow that made it go in. It was so severe and it made her look like she had a bald spot. So it worked for her. I never got one. I wanted to just so I could have that experience. But perming them up just feels a little counterintuitive for me. I always wanna like, brush them to the side, but...

0:08:30.7 MS: Yep, I get that.

0:08:32.3 EC: Okay. And then the last of the honorable mentions is kids, teenagers using skincare not suited for their skin.

0:08:39.3 MS: Uh-huh. We talked about that.

0:08:41.5 EC: Yeah, I think there's a plus and a minus here.

0:08:43.6 MS: Is that a trend? I think that's the generation.

0:08:46.7 EC: Yeah, generational.

0:08:48.5 MS: Yeah.

0:08:49.1 EC: So for the generation, at least they're more aware of skin care, but they're not using the right thing. So something to think about. So are you ready for the top three?

0:09:00.1 MS: Tell me.

0:09:00.9 EC: Number three, at home dermaplaning.

0:09:02.7 MS: Pam, pam, pam.

0:09:03.8 EC: Tan, tan, tan. I get it.

[laughter]

0:09:05.9 EC: AKA shaving your own face.

0:09:07.7 MS: Okay. I do that, I do that and I love it. And I will never stop.

0:09:13.1 EC: Yeah, I don't see the big deal.

0:09:14.9 MS: Ella's like, "Yeah".

0:09:19.8 EC: Yeah, don't stop, won't stop. Should stop. No, I don't know. You look good.

0:09:22.8 MS: Oh, thanks, girl. [laughter]

0:09:23.9 EC: Maybe you know it. I think there's like, you know how to do it. That's...

0:09:26.7 MS: You look good.

0:09:27.8 EC: Thanks.

0:09:28.2 MS: I sit here every day on this podcast and think, "Look at that skin".

0:09:33.1 EC: Okay, well, don't get too close 'cause I do not shave my face every day. So I do have a mustache, in fact I...

0:09:37.0 MS: Okay. So maybe this is like proof in the pudding. I need to stop shaving my face.

0:09:42.8 EC: Oh stop. Don't stop.

0:09:45.1 MS: Okay.

0:09:45.5 EC: You look great.

0:09:46.3 MS: Thank you.

0:09:47.1 EC: Okay. Next is glass skin. What about glass skin?

0:09:50.1 MS: You know, I don't know. I could go either way. Because there are some skin types where glass it up and you look beautiful and you're shiny and slick and then other people where they look like a grease oven and they need to stop.

0:10:08.6 EC: I tried to get it too, but I think, for me, if you have glass skin, you're either oily or your barriers, like you're over exfoliated. But I've also seen like the retinol face.

0:10:18.9 MS: Yeah, but you know what? If you're like, if you have a little baby doll face and it's glassy, it could be very pretty.

0:10:27.8 EC: Sure, I think people are pretty, but I don't... I never thought the appeal of seeking that out.

0:10:33.5 MS: Okay. Yeah.

0:10:34.1 EC: I guess, I think it's stupid. [chuckle]

0:10:35.6 MS: Okay. Ella has spoken.

0:10:37.7 EC: Crusty, rusty, esty, over here has spoken. Are you ready for the number one?

0:10:41.8 MS: Yeah.

0:10:42.5 EC: Beef tallow.

0:10:43.6 MS: Okay, you're gonna tell us all about the beef tallow...

0:10:45.8 EC: I will tallow.

0:10:46.0 MS: And then I will weigh in.

0:10:48.7 EC: Okay, so you want... You don't wanna tell us right now? One, so Kira, that works with me, she had reached out I guess maybe six or seven months ago, and she's like, "What do you think about beef tallow?" I was like, "Dumb. So dumb. Why would anybody wanna do that?" I knew that previously we had used beef tallow from rendering plants as society for cosmetics. I'm like, "We're so beyond that. Why would we even wanna do that?" She was like, "Oh, it's all over TikTok". And I'm not on TikTok. I just watch the reels on Instagram. So I'm like, "Just ignore it. Don't worry about it". Well, guess what? I don't know if my algorithms were initiated or what, but I start seeing it more and more and more and hearing more and more about it. In fact, I was not alone. So beef tallow is making headlines. Girl, let me tell you. Here are a few of my very favorites, and it's not just from TikTok. So Verywell Health, November 27th, 2024. Here's the headline. "Beef fat is the Internet's new skincare obsession. Is it worth the hype?" Ew. When you think about it that way, no thanks.

0:11:49.8 EC: Women's Health, August 2024, "Is Beef Tallow really good for your skin? Here's what dermatologists think". Forbes magazine, December 2024, "Beef Tallow. TikTok skincare trend. Here are the concerns". So we're starting to get into it. The Washington Post, November 2024, "The latest skincare trend, Beef fat". Yes, beef fat. And then my favorite is from Allure, also December 2024, "Beef Tallow. Skincare is a hard pass for dermatologists". So let's just talk about it. What is beef tallow? Why is everyone else thinking about it, talking about it or considering it. So as I said, it's a traditional moisturizer. It's rendered from what they're gonna tell you is grass fed cattle, but it can be from any cattle. But a lot of these brands or companies are gonna say it's you know, ethically sourced. Which brings up another point I'm gonna ask in a little bit. But it's been a staple in skincare for centuries. There aren't many peer reviewed studies on it specifically examining the skin benefits, but there is still a lot of research on like some of the aspects of it. Particularly, if we look back in 2017' they're talking about the moisturizing properties of it.

0:13:10.2 EC: In 2023, we had another study from Skin Pharmacology and Physiology discussing the fatty acid compound and that's effect on the barrier function. So examining it, here's what we know. It's rich in fat soluble vitamins like vitamin A, D, K and E. And so we know all of those nourish the skin, promote repair, promote regeneration. Okay, right, not that bad. And then, it also replenishes the fatty acids in the skin. We're talking about oleic, palmitic, stearic and linoleic acid. So these again are also supporting the barrier function, fortifying the skin's protective, which is everybody else is talking about that now too. For a long time we were just as I like to say, turning and burning it, and now we're really focused on protecting the barrier and not making the skin vulnerable. Here's another thing that's interesting is that it's similar to human sebum and that's due to the fatty acid profile. So it closely mimics our natural oil. So if we're putting it on, that it should be well recognized. And when we're thinking about even though it's heavy and it's thick, it shouldn't cause more oil production or less oil production. But this is why it's theorized to make an excellent moisturizer especially for damaged skin.

0:14:31.7 EC: And we're thinking about compromise from over treated or we're thinking about maybe a lot more presentation of like autoimmune effects on the skin in particular. So think about that. And then, it's gentle and reported as non-comedogenic. So unlike some synthetic ingredients, it's not likely to clog your pores. You already know my thoughts on the comedogenic scale. But if you, which I think is, listen, we have an episode, go back and check it. But this interesting because if you go back to those headlines, these dermatologists are like, "No, it's comedogenic". It's absolutely gonna cause breakouts in everybody's skin. It seems to be there's all or nothing.

0:15:16.0 MS: I think my gut reaction, those headlines have it right. And we traditionally have had skincare products that are centered on plant based fats, not animal fats for many reasons. But all of these points that you have made about, you know, rich in the vitamins and the fatty acids and it's going to support the barrier. There are many ingredients that do that, not just beef fat. And I think this is, I hope this is a fleeting trend. I believe that this is, you know, maybe one person or a handful of people that said, while we're using, you know, X, Y, Z ingredient over here, let's try beef fat. However they came to that conclusion, I don't know. And it, I don't know, started trending, went viral and now everybody's in on it and you're just smearing grease all over your face. Not to mention this is not really a stable product. Would you pull fat off of your steak from the fridge? And this is going extreme, but would you do that and then spread it on your skin?

0:16:32.1 EC: No.

0:16:32.7 MS: No.

0:16:33.2 EC: No.

0:16:33.6 MS: And that's gonna go rancid over time as well. All ingredients do. But that's gonna go rancid. It's gonna smell, it's not nice. Of course it's comedogenic.

0:16:44.0 EC: That's what they said. They said like one of the biggest drawbacks is the scent of it. And so they're putting it again, it might be kind of stinky, but it works. And then I was talking to Kira again. I said, "I think, you know, this is an interesting subject". And she goes, "Yeah, on TikTok it's... Or Reddit even. It worked for me. And somebody else is saying it didn't work for me". Well, of course not, because you have many different skin types. So nothing is gonna work for everyone. But what I hear you saying is that you think this trend will be the cerulean blue, like Miranda Priestly said, where it's like it came from somewhere. But is this really gonna last? Like, is it gonna die off hopefully? Well, I'm not gonna put my opinion in yet, but will it die off? I think so. I think you're right. Where it started from, it feels like, like just kind of digging back. I think that it started from like... I don't wanna call them farmer's market formulators, but for that. And maybe that's because that's where I got mine from. [chuckle]

0:17:43.8 MS: Yeah, a 100%. And you know what this makes me think of too is like, when you go to the farmer's market and you can find all kinds of skincare products, lotions, soaps, you name it. And not just beef tallow, but goat's milk for instance, or you know, fill in the blank, your farm to skin products and beef tallow is one of them.

0:18:06.5 EC: Yeah, and I think that. Exactly. I think this is, let's just say that this is what happened. I think it was a farmer's market farm to face product that some tiktoker got a hold of and it made it viral and then people started adding it more and more and more and more. So I guess I have another question here. It's what happened to the vegan skincare movement? Because you just talked about goat's milk. There's other animal or mammalian product, byproducts coming out which I never had a problem with. Look, I love beeswax and honey, but so what happened to that?

0:18:42.0 MS: Yeah, you know, earlier when we were going through the headlines, what was going through my head is what's old is new again. That's what this is. I feel like this is an ingredient that has been used probably for centuries. It's not new, but that's what trends are to some extent. It's something that has been around and now somebody discovers it, it becomes new again. Like, "Oh my God. Did you know beef tallow will moisturize your skin?" Yeah, we have known for a hundred years.

0:19:13.9 EC: But why did we stop? That's another question.

0:19:16.4 MS: Yeah, because it's a trend. It comes and goes. And the trend that then entered was let's be clean and green, let's use plants instead. Plants are probably more sustainable. Plants are probably better for your skin. Plants don't smell like a steak smeared across your face.

0:19:33.4 EC: Hopefully, not a seasoned steak garlic. [laughter]

0:19:35.6 MS: Yeah. Right, Right. That would smell better.

0:19:38.6 EC: Yeah. So do you think the Estys in this non-official poll are not in favorite because it started as a TikTok trend or they don't want to smell like garlic steak?

0:19:48.2 MS: Both.

0:19:48.8 EC: Both. Yeah. Well I mentioned I tried it because you know, I don't shy away from a trend.

0:19:54.0 MS: Yeah.

0:19:54.3 EC: Let me try it. Guess where I got mine?

0:19:56.2 MS: At the farmer's market.

0:19:56.7 EC: At the farmer's market, pretty much. So it was this tallow balm. And I wanna share my experience. This is my, I mean there was no scientific studies done on this, but I feel like a good anecdotal experience is pretty relevant. So I got it, and I was super pumped because I wear Birkenstocks. So we know that... We in the Birkenstock club know what that means.

0:20:17.3 MS: That means you use beef tallow?

0:20:18.7 EC: On my feet.

[laughter]

0:20:20.8 EC: It gets crunchy. You got to keep them soft and supple. But something about Birkenstock...

0:20:24.5 MS: I think that doubles down on the smell, Ella.

[laughter]

0:20:28.4 EC: It's a beef tallow. No, no, no. But I started using it and then throughout the fall under socks at night, and my feet got more dry. They felt really good in the moment, and it felt really good for, like, a couple days, but my feet got super dry. And you know what I think?

0:20:47.2 MS: Yeah, tell us.

0:20:47.8 EC: It turned off my natural moisture factor. I think having that much compatible, like, memetic sebum on my feet was like, "Oh, we're good. We don't have to do at work anymore", 'cause that's what it felt like.

0:21:00.1 MS: Yeah, I could totally agree with that. I mean, beef tallow is not the only ingredient that has the potential to do that.

0:21:06.2 EC: Yeah, exactly. Like, there's other ones. Like, you don't... The key to me with any ingredient or... Really, it's more about the formulation.

0:21:14.0 MS: Yeah.

0:21:14.4 EC: Because there should be some synergy in a formulation that's gonna say, "This one ingredient and this one ingredient and this one ingredient, they make your body systems, your skin for function as an organ more efficiently".

0:21:27.4 MS: Yeah.

0:21:27.9 EC: And so, I think just this single ingredient that I had and I think maybe some orange essential oil, I don't know. But this single ingredient product didn't have that same synergy, that same holistic communication with my body. So my body's like, "Oh, we're good. We don't need to produce anymore. We're so good". So I returned to using my other body butter that has silk proteins in it. Though that silk protein is going to encourage drawing moisture in, hydration in, and then encourage the rest of the synergy of that ingredients, encourage normal proliferation and different things. So by all reports, my skin is good, my feets are soft again, my husband's thankful. But I will not use a single ingredient beef tallow anymore. So there you have it. What do you think about that?

[laughter]

0:22:15.4 MS: I think it's so interesting.

0:22:16.7 EC: Yeah.

0:22:17.4 MS: I can see that it would turn off your natural moisture factors and everything you just said, and I hope this is a trend that is fleeting and it goes quickly.

0:22:26.1 EC: We'll see. Now, listeners, we really wanna hear from you. What are your thoughts on beef tallow and skincare? Reach out via Instagram, Facebook, or send us an email at getconnected@ascpskincare.com. We wanna know all the details. In the meantime, thank you for listening to ASCP Esty Talk. For more information on this episode, or for ways to connect with Maggie or myself, or to learn more about ASCP, check out the show notes and stay tuned for the next episode of ASCP Esty Talk.