Ep 186 – What Are Your Thoughts On . . .

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0:01:36.5 Ella Cressman: Hello and welcome to ASCP Esty Talk. I am Ella Cressman, licensed esthetician, certified organic skin care formulator and content contributor for Associated Skin Care Professionals. 

 

0:01:45.9 Maggie Staszcuk: I am Maggie Staszcuk, licensed esthetician and ASCP's Education Program Manager. 

 

0:01:52.7 EC: And we have a shout-out today to New Skin by Tracy. Hi, Tracy. We are glad you're listening and we hope you loved the summit. 

 

0:02:02.7 MS: What's up, Tracy?  

 

0:02:04.5 EC: So today we're gonna talk about a lot of things. There is a lot going on in the aesthetic world and we need to chat about it. Maggie, what are your thoughts on this? Can we talk about something that baffles my mind, it's so funny, because trends come and go, right? This is one trend that I can see being cute and I'm glad it's being delivered on one side in a certain kind of way, but I'm nervous about the other way it's being delivered, but anyways, Maggie, what are your thoughts on tattooed freckles?  

 

0:02:37.8 MS: I think I'm baffled too. This is so weird to me because as estheticians and in the beauty industry, we have been so obsessed with smoothing out the skin, eliminating unwanted pigment, and then we're going back in and tattooing it. 

 

0:02:53.6 EC: I don't get it. 

 

0:02:54.9 MS: My mind is blown. 

 

0:02:57.4 EC: And let's talk about that. A lot of times it's with permanent or semi-permanent makeup, but sometimes it's not. And sometimes it can look really cute, you look youthful, super youthful, like elementary. 

 

0:03:13.3 MS: Super youthful. My mind is going like Strawberry Shortcake. 

 

0:03:14.8 EC: That's what I was thinking. Or Punky Brewster or Pippi Longstocking, that were super youthful. Or you can look like you stayed out in the sun too long, depending... So I'm assuming that people of my age, which is 45 in one week who are not getting this. 

 

0:03:34.3 MS: I would agree with you, and the other thing I would know is that... So I have seen this in real time on people, it is too perfect. Too perfectly placed, the freckles themselves are too ideal, it's fake. 

 

0:03:50.0 EC: Mapped. 

 

0:03:52.0 MS: Mapped. 

 

0:03:54.2 EC: Do you remember... We're of... I'm not gonna say that you're my age, that's your business, but do you remember in the 1980s being obsessed with Madonna and her mole?  

 

0:04:05.4 MS: Oh, yeah. And the cone bra, just saying. 

 

0:04:10.0 EC: Thank God that went out of style, but can you imagine a lot of people got moles tattooed on their face, but it was with regular tattoo ink, not the semi-permanent ink. And they would fade from that dark brown to green or purple. 

 

0:04:23.7 MS: Yes, and I was just thinking that. And you said it, this is semi-permanent ink meant for what it is, permanent cosmetics, but tattooing does fade to this bluish greenish weirdness. You would never want that on your face. 

 

0:04:41.1 EC: And it goes two years. So I know that personally, I've seen a lot and shout out to those who are doing permanent makeup well, because there's a lot of work that looks fantastic. One of them was just last week, I saw somebody who had their eyeliner done four years ago, and I was like, "Get out," it looks so good, but there's also those who don't. Long story short, make sure if you're going to commit to this, there's a couple of things, one, you're going to somebody reputable and number two, that you have thoroughly researched the procedure. Because I think relating to... I don't wanna say the younger audience because I feel young, but people in their 20s, this is who I'm imagining gets this, I'm imagining that they are like, "Ooh," gonna be excited about different cosmetic procedures without really evaluating all of the risks. So take a quick Google trip and say, "Tattooed freckles gone wrong." That's a good one, or "Tattoo freckles risk." And I did that and I just wanted to share some of the headlines. One is woman's freckles tattoo on face goes badly wrong. I tattooed freckles on my face thinking they'd fade. Women are being scared by botched DIY freckles. An influencer, 22, who was left scarred and temporary blind from this procedure, and then TikToker gets freckled tattoos and it goes horribly wrong. So, great for the tattoo removal industry, but really consider all of that part. 

 

0:06:21.0 MS: Yeah, I agree, totally. And also, side note, if you are getting any kind of permanent makeup, especially freckles and you are also seeing any kind of technician, esthetician, whatever it is, be sure that you're noting this on your intake form, letting them know that you have this permanent makeup, that you have tattooed freckles. 

 

0:06:41.5 EC: Because they might be trying to remove them, scrubbing. "I guess schmutz on your face," especially if they're mapped out perfectly like you said. Very important. Okay, so next question there... I'm a big fan of Botox or preventative aging, and there's now a new kid on the block that is boasting different benefits. Now, before we talk about the new kid on the block, let's talk about what's been available for the majority of time. Botox was the first and the most popular, the hero. But we also have Xeomin and Dysport. So the way that they behave, Dysport and Botox are the same as far as the protein, same active ingredient. The Xeomin is similar, but just a slightly different molecular makeup, same molecule, just different shape, and that's why they're calling the Xeomin as the naked protein. My experience, I've had Xeomin, I've not had Dysport, but it didn't last, it metabolized super quick out of my system. And I know other people who like it, but at any rate, early on in my preventative journey, I would have to get injections once or twice a year, now it's about every three or four months, depending. About every four months, so three times a year. And that's right in line with where they're saying traditional Botox lasts. But now there is a new kid on the block, Daxxify, who they're touting their benefits last six months. So less frequent appointments but twice the price. So what are your thoughts on Daxxify, this new kid on the block for neurotoxins?  

 

0:08:25.2 MS: Well, if we're talking twice the price, but lasting longer, I mean, same thing. Pay less, go in more frequent or pay more and last longer. I mean, I would just say, you want Botox or do you want Daxxify?  

 

0:08:37.7 EC: Would you try it?  

 

0:08:39.3 MS: Yeah, I would try it. 

 

0:08:40.0 EC: Alright, let's go. Let's make an appointment. 

 

0:08:42.2 MS: Let's do it, Ella. 

 

0:08:43.6 EC: You first. 

 

[overlapping conversation] 

 

0:08:50.3 EC: And then I'll wait fifteen minutes. And I think that I would try it too. Absolutely, I have no problems, especially 'cause it's temporary-ish, but I do wanna see a little bit more information on it too. Hold that thought, we'll be right back. 

 

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0:10:31.9 EC: Okay, here we go. Let's get back to the podcast. 

 

0:10:35.4 MS: I'm curious, obviously, it makes sense that more and more injectables would come out in Science Advances, but I also wonder if people... Well, we talked about people removing their injections in general, but I wonder if people are scaling away from Botox and saying, "I'm not doing this anymore, it's only lasting me a few months and it's a waste of my money." 

 

0:10:57.5 EC: I think that I've had those thoughts in my head too, I think where I've been able to stretch out my appointment. I mean, in all fairness, I feel like I look in my early 30s, I pass for that often, 'cause I started the preventative journey earlier. I know that a lot of people don't... Like, "You should never get it. No, no, no, no, no." And there are a lot of topical options for... Like, peptides and such that will inhibit... In their own way, but inhibit some of that contraction. It's just a faster way to get there to stop it all together. I will say in all fairness too, that I have had... Not the injector's fault, but just different injections where I've had this weird bat eyebrow or one... I call it my winking eye 'cause this must be stronger, my ocular muscle must be stronger in this side 'cause I'll get it... It'll soften the glabella, but this muscle pulls tighter, so I have one eyebrow higher than the other, so it's something that's tuned in and dialed in, so I would be nervous to try a new one, but I still am gonna do it and support it with topical peptides so that it extends the life of my Botox or Daxxify, if we try it. 

 

0:12:02.6 MS: Well, and that's the way to do it in general. Right?  

 

0:12:05.8 EC: So this one, I know you're gonna be excited about this one, but what are your thoughts of epidermal growth factors?  

 

0:12:15.8 MS: That's a loaded question. I agree with them. 

 

0:12:18.0 EC: Okay, so there's two... An interesting thing. So in April to June of 2021, this is how it came about, like I thought, oh, this is interesting, I wanna talk to Maggie about it. There was a review of epidermal growth factors in esthetics and regenerative medicine. And usually when you take these scientific reviews, some agency or some different research university or something, they'll say, I'm gonna review all these different articles, so when you're researching and you see a review that's what it is, I'm gonna review all these articles and come up with a conclusion what I see some commonalities. And what they found as far as epidermal growth factor, there's two keys that we should talk about today, that there were similarities between anti-aging and wound healing as far as those. And mostly that process for aging and wound healing, or anti-aging and wound healing is the same oxidative and repair mechanisms, so those were both similar. So as far as epidermal growth factors, what they are, is there's something that is able to bio-simulate fibroblasts and keratinocytes to restructure, which is what's happening when we're aging, is that process slows down, or when we have wound healing, whatever the four stages of wound healing you're in, there's proliferation. And the epidermal growth factors were more effective when they were applied as injections in this review or as transdermal patches versus topical, and they think it's because of the mechanism of delivery. 

 

0:13:53.7 MS: And that makes total sense to me. And for some reason, I feel like this came up, and it may have been a few years, but I feel like this came up in the medical industry, if somebody needed like a knee replacement, for instance, I don't know if it was something along the lines of stem cells or maybe it was growth factors, they were saying you could not take growth factors and inject it into that body part. They had decided that was a no, they were not allowing it. But that would be hugely effective, like if you had lots of cartilage in your knee and degeneration, why wouldn't you inject things like growth factors and stem cells to help rebuild. 

 

0:14:38.7 EC: So that would be cool for connective tissues and can you imagine if that was the case for connective tissue injuries, like a sprain or strain or like this MCL. I think that would be cool. I wonder why they said that. 

 

0:14:51.0 MS: Yeah, and maybe that's changed, but I remember that was a big controversy for a while. 

 

0:14:57.1 EC: The other thing though, as I was researching, 'cause I wanted to... The rabbit hole that we go down when we're looking into these things, something I found too on cancer.com is the epidermal growth factor for that is a thing also, so that would be where the receptor protein signals pathways that control cell division. So if we're looking at basal cell carcinoma, that would expedite that growth factor would increase the way that those lesions would grow, or melanoma, that they would grow a lot faster because they divide more rapidly. That was interesting too. I don't think that the topical and the injectable would have an influence on it, but it was something that was interesting to me. 

 

0:15:40.1 MS: That is interesting, and when we think about people that just have any type of condition like eczema, psoriasis, things of that nature, I would imagine that applying growth factors to the skin would stimulate those conditions in negative ways, and cancer also probably is a factor or growth factors and something like cancer do not play well together. 

 

0:16:04.0 EC: That is a great point. And so in the world of cancer, and I think same thing with eczema and psoriasis, this would be beneficial is there's drugs that block the epidermal growth factor, proteins, so that that slows down that cell proliferation, and I think that's pretty close to something to keep an eye on in the science world. Now, out of the science world, back to pop culture, have you seen Love Is Blind, the last season on Netflix?  

 

0:16:33.4 MS: No, I haven't been watching. 

 

0:16:34.6 EC: I know you don't have Netflix but I wanted to ask you anyways. See, when I'm watching that... First of all, I'm fascinated, you know how I am with reality TV, but I want to know your... I was distracted, I have to be honest, this season, because of the eyelash extensions being so bad. 

 

0:16:51.5 MS: Really?  

 

0:16:52.9 EC: So bad. There's this girl and I don't... Mean girl number one, the blonde, I forget her name 'cause I don't care, but hers are so bad, there's gaps and they're not done really well at all, but there was a mean girl number two that were not... Hers were bad too. And I just thought, y'all, what are we doing? That's not... So I wanna know what are your thoughts on these extreme eyelash extensions?  

 

0:17:17.2 MS: It surprises me that that is a thing right now because I thought extreme eyelashes were years ago. 

 

0:17:26.8 EC: No, not according to... 

 

0:17:29.5 MS: Not according to Love Is Blind. 

 

0:17:31.4 EC: Yes, and I see why... 

 

0:17:32.0 MS: Love is blind because they have eyelash extensions. 

 

0:17:35.5 EC: I don't think they can still see who they picked. They're bad. I would wake up with red eyes, so there's a lot of other shows that I watch too, and I think... Like Teen Mom and just different ones, I'm like, wow, that's gotta be doing some damage, but now I watched an old movie like late '90s, early 2000s, and I thought, oh, their eyes are so naked because we're so used to seeing people with those long, luscious lashes now, but it doesn't mean you have to go that extreme, and if you do, keep up on your maintenance, that's just me being very judgy and I don't apologize. So curious about extreme eyelash extensions, and I will disclaim that I do love the look of eyelash extensions and I loved when I had them, but let's just not go crazy. 

 

0:18:21.1 MS: I agree. 

 

0:18:22.5 EC: Now, listeners, we really wanna hear from you. What are your thoughts on tattooed freckles, the new Botox on the block, epidermal growth factors, and really all things esthetics? Be sure to let us know, comment on our social media or send us an email at getconnected@ascpskincare.com, we want to know all the details. In the meantime, thank you for listening to ASCP Esty Talk. For more information on this episode or for ways to connect with Maggie or myself, check out the show notes. Stay tuned for the next episode of ASCP Esty Talk. 

 

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